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Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain

From "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain
Date 2025-05-09 23:28 +0200
Message-ID <tk82flxsuj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <vvi2n4$1n4pj$1@dont-email.me> <p4muelx89p.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <vvj9co$265vt$1@dont-email.me> <de81flxqff.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> <ahas1kt6jg338ie9g9od4edt15gea1mjmu@4ax.com>

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On 2025-05-09 18:22, Joe Gwinn wrote:
> On Fri, 9 May 2025 14:18:53 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> On 2025-05-08 23:57, Don Y wrote:
>>>>> That is a feature of UPS design that specsmanship to get the longest
>>>>> run time for the sales datasheet means that they cook their
>>>>> batteries. I have seen them swell to the point of bursting inside a
>>>>> UPS. Thick rubber gloves needed to remove the remains. Support
>>>>> metalwork was a real corroded rusty mess but electronics above it
>>>>> remained OK.
>>>>
>>>> That level of "not working" has not happened to me. Maybe because some
>>>> power failure makes me find out that the battery is dead.
>>>
>>> I've rescued a fair number of UPSs over the years.  In probably 80% of
>>> them, the batteries have swollen to the point where removing the battery
>>> or battery PACK is difficult.  This is especially true of the "better"
>>> UPSs (sine output, 48V battery, metal fabrication) where there is
>>> little "give" in the mechanical design.  Often one has to disassemble
>>> the UPS to see where one can gain leverage on the battery pack
>>> to force it from the case.
>>>
>>>>> They really think I'm going to buy their vastly overpriced replacements?
>>>>
>>>> I don't.
>>>>
>>>> But last battery I replaced was not even two years old, rather 5
>>>> months short. I replaced it just in time to serve during the Gran Apagón.
>>>
>>> That's the problem; you don't KNOW how long a particular battery will last,
>>> even in an environment where it is never called on for backup!
>>>
>>> Instead, you are forced into a "reactive" mode -- waiting for something
>>> to tell you you're screwed and need a replacement, now!
>>>
>>> My largest UPS uses 50 pound batteries (8 of them).
>>
>> Are they 12 volts each, or just one cell?
>>
>> On phone exchanges I saw huge batteries, actually individual cells
>> connected in series. 48 volts nominally, so 24 cells. I don't think they
>> were gel types, they needed adding water now and then.
> 
> The were most likely KS-20472 BELLCELL lead-acid battery cells,
> originally made by Western Electric, or European equivalent.  These
> are 2.2 volts per cell.
> 
> .<https://library.industrialsolutions.abb.com/publibrary/checkout/107852477?TNR=Installation%20and%20Instruction%7C107852477%7CPDF>

Those I saw were prismatic, not cylindrical.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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Thread

Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 13:24 +0100
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 00:42 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 16:07 +0100
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:52 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 20:32 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 13:43 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 17:07 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 17:38 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 09:31 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:45 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 04:29 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 09:20 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 02:57 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 10:54 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 11:28 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 03:55 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 06:56 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2025-05-01 19:15 +0000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 15:29 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 18:25 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 13:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 03:51 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:28 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 15:16 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:54 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-02 12:01 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-05-02 00:35 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 16:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:56 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-02 16:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2025-05-02 14:59 +0300
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-04-30 11:18 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-03 11:20 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:34 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-01 10:36 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 19:20 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 11:04 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-01 12:47 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> - 2025-05-01 21:50 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 11:24 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-01 13:06 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-01 11:37 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 07:45 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 00:53 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-02 17:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 16:20 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:01 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-03 16:11 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2025-05-02 22:50 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 07:43 -0700
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 00:56 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-02 17:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 13:41 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-02 15:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:19 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-03 14:10 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-08 00:59 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void> - 2025-05-01 15:21 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:34 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2025-04-29 17:48 +0200
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 09:03 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:49 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:41 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 10:59 +0100
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:41 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 12:08 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-04-30 11:25 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-04-30 22:34 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 21:53 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-04-30 16:05 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 04:33 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2025-04-30 14:11 +0200
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:42 +0200
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 11:47 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:07 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 23:37 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-01 17:21 +0100
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:41 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:03 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 21:50 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 08:12 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 03:20 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-03 19:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 11:30 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-03 21:17 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 13:39 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 20:36 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 15:57 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:34 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 13:20 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:50 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 17:39 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:47 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:45 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 06:58 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-06 04:47 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-05 20:04 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-06 16:32 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-06 08:13 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-08 02:30 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-07 17:48 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-08 15:54 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 12:27 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:35 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-05 19:40 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-06 10:25 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:26 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-06 13:27 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:56 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-06 14:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 13:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 05:09 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 14:30 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 06:17 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> - 2025-05-07 22:04 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-07 16:01 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 11:57 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 04:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 13:43 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-08 13:43 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 15:08 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-08 17:19 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 20:39 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-09 09:23 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 13:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain KevinJ93 <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> - 2025-05-08 12:51 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:18 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-09 09:21 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 03:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 13:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 05:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-09 07:55 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-09 07:35 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:05 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:32 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:07 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:32 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 03:19 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 16:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-10 09:13 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 15:04 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-11 06:46 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:25 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-12 11:07 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:54 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:57 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:18 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-09 12:22 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 23:28 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-10 08:03 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 16:05 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-10 14:47 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Glen Walpert <nospam@null.void> - 2025-05-09 22:50 +0000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:41 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-10 03:26 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 20:52 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 15:21 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:44 +0200
                UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:41 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-08 15:18 +0100
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:23 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 17:13 -0700
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:29 +0200
                Re: UPS [Was:Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain] Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 05:21 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:38 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:29 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 04:05 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:20 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-09 14:44 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 14:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:31 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-05 18:49 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 02:18 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-06 10:42 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-05 17:37 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-05 19:47 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:32 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 15:42 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 23:55 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-03 16:53 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:27 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-04 09:49 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-04 17:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 02:24 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:34 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-04 08:35 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 19:36 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-04 13:24 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 16:00 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2025-05-04 10:12 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:50 +0200
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:17 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:24 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 22:58 +0100
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-02 16:10 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:37 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 10:47 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 23:59 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 15:15 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 02:29 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:49 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-04 16:15 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:41 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2025-05-04 10:23 +0200
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-04 16:38 +0100
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> - 2025-04-30 22:16 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:18 +1000
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 07:57 -0700
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 11:27 -0400
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 08:59 -0700
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:05 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-30 11:41 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 22:37 +1000
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2025-04-30 21:50 +0800
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 01:05 +1000
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 11:51 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:33 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2025-05-09 02:16 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 21:25 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 16:53 +1000
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain brian <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> - 2025-04-29 17:24 +0100
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain brian <nospam@b-howie.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 07:09 +0100
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:13 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 12:26 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:51 +0200
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 13:39 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 17:05 -0400
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 15:41 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 18:55 -0400
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-29 17:00 -0700
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:32 +1000
                Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0200
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain bitrex <user@example.net> - 2025-04-29 17:07 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-04-30 17:19 +1000
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:57 -0700
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:33 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-04-30 19:55 +0100
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 12:33 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:00 -0700
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:00 +0200
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-04-30 17:28 -0400
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:24 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 10:27 +0100
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 07:06 -0700
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-01 15:48 +0100
            Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-05-01 08:40 -0700
              Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-05 02:10 +1000
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:17 +1000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 11:38 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 03:32 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:12 +0200
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 19:38 -0400
          Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-02 18:04 +1000
      Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 22:19 +0000
        Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2025-05-01 19:21 -0400
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2025-04-30 09:08 -0700
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-01 15:29 +1000
  Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:13 +0200
    Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> - 2025-05-02 11:28 +0100
      Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:30 +0200
        Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain Miguel Gimenez <me@privacy.net> - 2025-05-08 14:31 +0200
          Re: Gran Apagón - Electricity (not) in Spain "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 15:45 +0200
  Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> - 2025-05-09 02:20 -0400
    Re: Grand Apagon - Electricity (not) in Spain Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2025-05-09 21:35 +1000

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