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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #665376
| From | Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Rate of Change |
| Date | 2025-08-03 08:06 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <mf8cd5Fhd76U8@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | (6 earlier) <106giv6$985$2@dont-email.me> <mf39tsFmbisU1@mid.individual.net> <106j86t$kd1q$2@dont-email.me> <mf5uuhF5dsvU1@mid.individual.net> <106km6v$vq91$1@dont-email.me> |
Am Samstag000002, 02.08.2025 um 11:36 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen: > Den 02.08.2025 10:04, skrev Thomas Heger: >> Am Freitag000001, 01.08.2025 um 22:31 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen: >>> Den 01.08.2025 09:53, skrev Thomas Heger: >>>> Am Donnerstag000031, 31.07.2025 um 22:16 schrieb Paul.B.Andersen: >>>>> >>>>> Please answer the following questions: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Do you think that "time" must be measurable to have >>>>> a meaning in _physics_? >>>>> >>>>> If no, post in another news group. >>>>> >>>>> If yes: >>>>> >>>>> 2. What is the instrument that measures time? >>> >>>> >>>> There is always a difference between a measurement and the things we >>>> measure. >>>> >>>> Measurements are usually conducted with some kind of measuring devices. >>>> >>>> E.g. we measure voltage with a Volt-meter and temperature with a >>>> thermometer. >>>> >>>> But temperature has nothing to do with thermometers, because >>>> temperature also exists without any measurements. >>>> >>>> This is similar to any other quantity, because 'device' is an >>>> indicator for 'man-made' and that the opposite to 'nature'. >>>> >>>> Since physics is a natural science, we need to think about nature as >>>> something, which would exist without our aid or our measuring devices. >>>> >>>> That's why 'measurements' are not natural and that's why nature >>>> doesn't take those measurements into consideration. >>>> >>>> If you reject this setting, than feel free to do whatever you like. >>>> But don't expect anybody do the same. >>>> >>>> >>>> TH >>> >>> Is there any particular reason why you don't even try to answer my >>> questions? >>> > >> Yes. >> >> I told you already, that any quantity in nature is entirely >> independent of any kind of measurements. >> >> Since physics is a natural science, physics deals with natural >> phenomena, hence also with quantities, which are not measured. > > So according to you, physics is about natural phenomena which > are not measured. No! You can measure all those quantities, but that is not a requirement. Many things in nature are not measurable for one reason or the other, but do still exist. Physics deals also with distant stars, for instance, which are too far away to measure them. And, of course, we do not decide about existence by measuring something (or not).>> >> Man made devices like e.g. clocks are not part of nature, hence belong >> to the realm, which deals with man made devices. > > And since all measuring instruments are man made, > they have no place in physics? No! Devices belong to a realm, which is not nature. I would prefer to call that 'engineering'. Physicists use all sorts of devices, but would not necessarily build them. >> >> This is usually called 'engineering'. > > OK, let me reformulate: > > 1. Do you think that "time" must be measurable to have > a meaning in engineering? > > 2. What is the instrument that engineers use to measures time? Physicists use clocks of various forms, technology and size. But time does not use clocks! This is so, because time is a natural phenomenon and nature does not use any man-made devices. TH
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Rate of Change Street <street@shellcrash.com> - 2025-07-27 11:14 +0000
Re: Rate of Change Willilam Babuh <bim@aimwi.ru> - 2025-07-27 11:39 +0000
Re: Rate of Change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-07-27 13:59 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-07-27 18:03 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-28 20:27 +0200
Re: Rate of Change "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-07-30 22:33 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-07-31 06:03 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-30 22:56 -0700
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-31 23:27 -0700
Re: Rate of Change nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-08-01 09:50 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-07-31 08:43 +0200
Re: Rate of Change "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-07-31 22:16 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-01 09:53 +0200
Re: Rate of Change "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-01 22:31 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-01 23:42 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-02 10:11 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-01 23:45 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-02 10:04 +0200
Re: Rate of Change "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-02 11:36 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-03 08:06 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Edmund Balanovski <bmesnl@akvdb.ru> - 2025-08-03 09:54 +0000
Re: Rate of Change "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-03 22:35 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-03 22:05 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-04 09:06 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-04 09:11 -0700
Re: Rate of Change squalk <sq@net.inv> - 2025-08-04 18:01 +0100
Re: Rate of Change Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-08-04 17:23 +0000
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-04 12:40 -0700
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-04 22:43 -0700
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-05 09:46 -0700
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-05 21:30 -0700
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-07 10:12 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-10 06:20 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-10 23:34 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-12 08:55 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Marcelino Valchikovsky <vch@kosiea.ru> - 2025-08-12 08:19 +0000
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-15 10:29 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-16 07:23 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Bubba Kalimahi <mkiu@miiibak.ru> - 2025-08-16 10:34 +0000
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-17 10:30 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Bowen Metrofanis <nomo@sbbeww.gr> - 2025-08-17 13:07 +0000
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-18 09:13 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-17 22:17 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-18 09:39 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-20 01:07 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-04 08:59 +0200
Re: Rate of Change "Paul.B.Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2025-08-04 11:51 +0200
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-04 09:17 -0700
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-04 09:24 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Percival Dudorov <duadc@dlo.ru> - 2025-08-04 14:33 +0000
Re: Rate of Change Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-08-05 09:00 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Johnathon Babadzhanov <nbnz@daa.ru> - 2025-08-05 11:51 +0000
Re: Rate of Change Moshe Stavropoulos <eeou@svh.gr> - 2025-07-31 16:08 +0000
Re: Rate of Change Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-07-31 19:54 +0200
Re: Rate of Change Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-07-27 07:47 -0700
Re: Rate of Change Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2025-12-08 13:02 -0800
Re: Rate of Change ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-07-27 15:04 +0000
Re: Rate of Change ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2025-07-27 15:11 +0000
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-07-27 11:05 -0700
Re: Rate of Change The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-08-02 10:15 -0700
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