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Re: ? ? ?

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: ? ? ?
Date	2024-02-26 07:30 +0100
Message-ID	<l42p7pF1fdhU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
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Am 25.02.2024 um 21:36 schrieb Paul B. Andersen:
> Den 25.02.2024 16:42, skrev Richard Hachel:
>>
>> I repeat these simple things again:
>> The notion of time, that is to say instant in Hashelian language, is
>> relative to POSITION in defined space. We can therefore NEVER
>> "absolutely" synchronize two watches placed in different places, we
>> can only do it FOR a third watch placed equidistant from two others,
>> and BETWEEN these two others. This third watch (observer) can then
>> say. Events A and B occurred simultaneously, FOR ME, and they were
>> simultaneous for all the other watches in the universe placed on the
>> bisector M of AB.
>> But between A and B, there will NEVER be absolute simultaneity.
>> We can synchronize A on B, or B on A (FOR A), but the reciprocal will
>> then no longer be true. B will look at things with even more
>> astonishment and say: "It's worse, the gap is now double what it was
>> before).
>> You talk about time passing faster in A than in B, but I never talked
>> about that. It goes without saying that time is perfectly
>> isochronotropic. A watch in A, in B, in C, in Y, and Z, in the same
>> inertial frame of reference, will always beat, this is a tautology, at
>> the same speed as the others; and the opposite would be absurd.
>> It is only by change of reference that chronotropy varies.
>>
>> In short, time, that is to say the moment, is RELATIVE to the
>> position; chronotropy, i.e. duration, is RELATIVE to speed.
>>
>> It is childishly simple, but sad to cry because this beauty, this
>> simplicity, is refused by men for the simple fact that it hurts their
>> eyes.
>
> I don't understand what you are trying to say.
> But I will present an example of synchronism from the real world.

I would actually support the idea of local time, too (which was a 
proposal from Henry Poincaré).

the reason to think so:

time is based on the counting of certain events, like day and night or 
the vibrations of a quartz.

But why should all days be equal and why, if the plantes are not equal, 
upon which the day is based?

For equal time throughout the entire universe we would need a 'master 
clock', which would synchronize all clocks in existence.

But no such thing does (apperently) exist and that's why time is local 
and clocks depend on the local environment and count something there.

Then other environments have other days and other seconds.

Even the direction of time does not need to be the same, because worlds 
are thinkable, where time runs backwards (from our perspective).

> Given two clocks on the geoid at the equator.
> Both clocks are showing UTC.
> The clocks are 10 km apart as measured in the ground frame.
>
> All physicists will agree on the following:
>
> In the non rotating Earth centred frame of reference (aka ECI-frame),
> where the clocks are moving easwards with the speed 465.1 m/s,
> the clocks are synchronous according to Einstein's definition of
> simultaneity.

This is not true, because the frame of reference can be chosen in SRT, 
hence the velocity v is also arbitrary.

You mean actually, that a point on the equator rotates with that angular 
velocity, if we would regard the solar system as stationary.

But we know with certainty, that the solar system isn't, since it 
rotates around the centre of our home galaxy, which also moves around in 
the local cluster.

Since the latter movements are far faster than the rotation of the 
Earth' equator, we could actually ignore that rotation and concentrate 
on the movement of the local cluster.

> But in the ground frame, where the clocks are stationary, will the
> eastern clock always lag ≈ 0.051 ns behind the western clock.


I do not understand this sentence:

what is an 'eastern clock' and why should it lack behind a 'western clock'?
...


TH

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Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-23 08:09 +0100
  Re: ? ? ? Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-23 15:02 +0100
    Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-23 21:35 +0000
      Re: ? ? ? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-24 07:40 -0500
        Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-24 13:07 +0000
        Re: ? ? ? Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-24 16:38 +0100
          Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-24 16:55 +0000
        Re: ? ? ? Lénárt Szakács Keresztes <fn@jvre.hu> - 2024-02-24 19:58 +0000
          Re: ? ? ? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-02-24 14:34 -0600
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      Re: ? ? ? tomyee3@gmail.com (ProkaryoticCaspaseHomolog) - 2024-02-24 16:35 +0000
  Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-23 15:47 +0000
    Re: ? ? ? Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-23 16:53 +0100
      Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-24 08:48 +0100
        Re: ? ? ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-24 11:01 +0200
          Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-24 13:06 +0000
            Re: ? ? ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-24 15:52 +0200
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            Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-25 07:50 +0100
              Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-25 15:42 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-25 21:36 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-26 07:30 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-26 11:02 +0100
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