Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #651782

Re: ? ? ?

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: ? ? ?
Date	2024-02-25 07:50 +0100
Message-ID	<l4060uFjpt5U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <OUBwWk7nMWGNJZmcRmw2PSfJVnw@jntp> <uraf1j$k54i$1@dont-email.me> <l3tl1lF7v86U1@mid.individual.net> <urcb9o$14049$1@dont-email.me> <H8rfjmuhUKt3d2dH4AwyunFLrCQ@jntp>

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Am 24.02.2024 um 14:06 schrieb Richard Hachel:
> Le 24/02/2024 à 10:01, Mikko a écrit :
>> Not a signifiacnt disadvantage. But an important question is whether
>> the syncronicity of A and B and the syncronicity of B and C imply
>> the syncronicity of A and C. Einstein does not say much about that
>> in "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies" but elsewhere says "yes".
>>
>> In Special Relativity any observer who is equidistant from clocks A and
>> B can determine the synchronization of A and B the same wah as an
>> observer
>> halfway between. For almost every for points A, B, C, and D an observer
>> can be equidistant from those points.
>
> Saying that two points A and B exist in perfect synchrony, that is to
> say constantly exist at the same present moment, does not make sense in
> special relativity (or at least, it should not).

Points are actually timeless (in euclidean space), because 'point' 
denotes a location. And locations do not move (by definition of 'location').

But you apparently mean 'local time' (or 'A-time' at point A).

Here SRT influences and changes local time in remote locations, hence 
A-time and B-time are not in synch per se.

Now it's getting tricky to synchronize clocks in A and B, because not 
only the time values (and dates) must be sent to the remote place, but 
also the length of the second.

The time and date values from, say, A can be sent to B, if A reduces the 
timme encoded into the signal by the expected delay.

Or it could be synched by B, if B adds the delay value to the encoded 
time value in the timing signal.

Now we get a similar clock at the remote position, say B, which is in 
synch with the remote time (A-time), but not with the local time (B-time).

It is actually not possible to bring that clock (showing A-time at place 
B) in synch with B-time, if the second in B is e.g. twice as long as in A.

> However, Einstein seems to think so, which surprises me a lot.
>
> Two events can only be simultaneous for a given point.


No.

Events have only a single time value and no duration, hence can be 
synchronized, if the delay is taken into consideration.

To do this, the delay should be measured (by cutting the time for a 
round-trip in half) and added to the timing information.

This is equivalent to a hypothetical timing signal with infinite velocity.

To use light instead would require to compensate the delay for the 
transit of the light signal. That can be done with a measurement of the 
delay (and not so without knowing the delay).
...

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Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-23 08:09 +0100
  Re: ? ? ? Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-23 15:02 +0100
    Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-23 21:35 +0000
      Re: ? ? ? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-24 07:40 -0500
        Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-24 13:07 +0000
        Re: ? ? ? Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-24 16:38 +0100
          Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-24 16:55 +0000
        Re: ? ? ? Lénárt Szakács Keresztes <fn@jvre.hu> - 2024-02-24 19:58 +0000
          Re: ? ? ? Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-02-24 14:34 -0600
            Re: ? ? ? Oga Shiganori Yoshikawa <nooos@nooor.jp> - 2024-02-24 23:22 +0000
              Re: ? ? ? pnalsing@gmail.com (palsing) - 2024-02-25 02:51 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? Jon-Michael Zhong <ja@llcmz.cn> - 2024-02-25 16:06 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2024-02-25 14:56 -0500
                Re: ? ? ? Wilbert Araújo <rrallri@jreia.pt> - 2024-02-25 20:29 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? Kennith Félix Escárcega <egkeb@uefcrake.es> - 2024-02-25 20:49 +0000
      Re: ? ? ? tomyee3@gmail.com (ProkaryoticCaspaseHomolog) - 2024-02-24 16:35 +0000
  Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-23 15:47 +0000
    Re: ? ? ? Python <python@invalid.org> - 2024-02-23 16:53 +0100
      Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-24 08:48 +0100
        Re: ? ? ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-24 11:01 +0200
          Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-24 13:06 +0000
            Re: ? ? ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-02-24 15:52 +0200
              Re: ? ? ? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-02-25 13:30 +0100
            Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-25 07:50 +0100
              Re: ? ? ? Richard Hachel <pourquoi-pas@tiscali.fr> - 2024-02-25 15:42 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-25 21:36 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-26 07:30 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-26 11:02 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? Piotr Babchenko Bakulev <ptpet@ito.ru> - 2024-02-26 20:57 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-27 07:48 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? Huy Kántor Hegedűs <re@uushhes.hu> - 2024-02-28 22:22 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-02-29 06:51 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? tomyee3@gmail.com (ProkaryoticCaspaseHomolog) - 2024-02-29 16:54 +0000
                Re: ? ? ? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-02-29 22:23 +0100
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                Re: ? ? ? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-03-01 07:27 +0100
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                Re: ? ? ? "Paul B. Andersen" <relativity@paulba.no> - 2024-03-01 20:47 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2024-03-01 23:44 +0100
                Re: ? ? ? tomyee3@gmail.com (ProkaryoticCaspaseHomolog) - 2024-03-02 06:59 +0000
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