Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #585258

Re: Annotated version of SRT

From	Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity
Subject	Re: Annotated version of SRT
Date	2022-05-13 08:41 +0200
Message-ID	<je6csbF77dpU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(18 earlier) <jduah6Flc3uU1@mid.individual.net> <52fe5433-4dcd-434c-905f-44e649e5b8f5n@googlegroups.com> <je11f5F6lumU1@mid.individual.net> <4e587415-9f7b-4ad9-b5ad-8a7b498ccef9n@googlegroups.com> <je55eoF9taU1@mid.individual.net>

Show all headers | View raw

Am 12.05.2022 um 21:28 schrieb Thomas Heger:
> Am 12.05.2022 um 20:33 schrieb JanPB:
>
> IOW: the distance between the zero spot of K and the zero spot of k
> increases according to distance(t) = v*t.
>
> The zero spot of K has also xsi-coordinates in k, with xsi= xsi_0 - v*t.
>
>
>
>>> We have two coordinate systems (K and k). k is moving with velocity v
>>> along the x-axis of K.
>>> Therefore
>>>
>>> x_0 (= zero spot of K) and xsi_0 (zero spot of k) are related as
>>>
>>> x_0 +v*t=xsi_0
>>
>> No, this is false. You seem to be stuck at an elementary school level
>> of the meaning of coordinates.
>>
>> According to your definitions  x_0 = 0  and  ksi_0 = 0.  Your
>> equations would
>> then imply the nonsensical one:  vt = 0.
>
> No.
>
> A scalar 'scales'. The unit vector of the corresponding coordinate
> system is multiplied by that scalar and out comes the corresponding
> coordinate, here in the x/xsi direction.
>
> But the coordinate system is not the same, hence we have different
> coordinates in K for x=0 then what we have in k for xsi=0.
>
> The difference is, of course, v*t.
>
>
>> I've already explained twice before what the correct equation is which
>> describes the given light source and mirror situation. It yields
>> Einstein's
>> equation which is likewise correct.
>
>
> After a number of messages exchanged with JanPB, we came to the result,
> that a mirror stationary in k at same distance to xsi_0 on the xsi-axis
> would be a valid assumption for the intended setting.
>
> These two items move with constant distance along the x/xsi-axis into
> the direction of higher xsi-values.
>
> This 'tandem' is observed from the zero spot of K, which moves with
> velocity v relative to the system into the negative direction with -v*t.
>
> But none of Einstein's equations would fit to that setting.
>
> Instead of a coordinate transformation he developed an obscure partial
> differential equation, which I think is faulty and which I'm unable to
> associate with the setting from above.

This is the equation:

1/2*(1/(c −v) + 1/(c +v))* ∂τ/∂t = ∂τ/∂x' + 1/(c +v)* ∂τ/∂t

As justification for this equation Einstein wrote:

"Hence, if x'  be chosen inﬁnitesimally small,..."

I have complained, that x' cannot be chosen "inﬁnitesimally small", 
because x' was defined as position of the mirror at a fixed position in 
k, but in K-coordinates.

This position is moving in K, to which the variable x' belongs.

The movement of x' in K is rather simple, because it moves with velocity 
v along the x-axis of K.

Now my question was, what these partial derivatives were meant to 
represent, if we have only a one-dimensional problem.

But there are more problems than that.

E.g. the term ∂τ/∂x' looks like an inverse of a velocity.

But that was not meant, because we have a very tricky problem here:
τ meant two different things, which were only named with the same symbol τ
(what I have regarded as very obscure).

One is a function τ, which converts coordinates from system k to 
coordinates from system k (both in four-vector form), while the other τ 
means a time measure in system k.

Here a still unknown function τ was meant in the partial differential 
equation, not a time measure.

The equation looks faulty to me, because ∂x' can be zero, hence ∂τ/∂x' 
would become infinite, for what I would not have an explanation.

> I have complained about this point several times, too.
>
> But apparently you know how to derive Einstein's equation. So, please
> let me know, how that works.

So, if you are able to derive that equation and justify its content, 
than please let me know.

Einstein himself didn't write a single word about how he came to that 
equation.

TH

Back to sci.physics.relativity | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-05 09:02 +0200
  Crank Thomas Heger keeps on lying "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-05-05 06:38 -0700
  Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-05 22:17 -0700
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-05 22:34 -0700
    Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-06 08:55 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 00:24 -0700
      Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 01:15 -0700
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-06 01:41 -0700
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-07 07:19 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-07 00:38 -0700
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-08 08:22 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-08 12:33 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-10 07:12 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-10 00:19 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-11 07:55 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-11 11:25 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-12 07:39 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-12 10:31 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-12 21:05 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-15 11:26 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-18 07:38 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-18 16:42 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-12 11:33 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-12 21:28 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-13 08:41 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-14 06:43 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-14 19:49 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-15 08:34 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-15 12:53 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-18 08:01 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-18 10:02 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-20 09:32 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-14 19:29 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-15 08:50 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-19 08:39 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@python.invalid> - 2022-05-19 11:03 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-19 06:56 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-19 02:05 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-20 09:17 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-20 15:10 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-21 08:38 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@python.invalid> - 2022-05-21 18:41 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-21 11:51 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-22 07:29 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-21 23:10 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@paulba.no> - 2022-05-19 20:00 +0200
      Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-06 17:09 +0300
        Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-07 07:32 +0200
          Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-07 13:53 +0300
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-07 05:10 -0700
            Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-08 08:33 +0200
              Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-08 12:34 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-09 07:20 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 02:24 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 03:04 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-09 10:14 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-09 00:25 -0700
              Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-18 15:54 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-18 06:17 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@python.invalid> - 2022-05-18 15:53 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-18 07:05 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@python.invalid> - 2022-05-18 16:58 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-19 08:57 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2022-05-19 11:42 +0300
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-19 06:57 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-05-19 16:17 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-19 07:41 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Python <python@invalid> - 2022-05-19 18:46 +0200
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-05-19 10:22 -0700
                Re: Annotated version of SRT Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-05-20 09:42 +0200

csiph-web