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Re: OT: Muppets

From Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: OT: Muppets
Date 2017-12-24 15:15 -0800
Message-ID <faaqonF38k1U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (11 earlier) <lq1u3ddnfqkkghdk8j1r54en3m6r5cev2c@4ax.com> <faa0mmFrugtU2@mid.individual.net> <nf804dpmiembff3tpajnd1po3gsjqpjmqs@4ax.com> <faaoi2F2pbgU1@mid.individual.net> <p1pb0i$gdu$1@dont-email.me>

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On 2017-12-24 14:51, rickman wrote:
> Joerg wrote on 12/24/2017 5:37 PM:
>> On 2017-12-24 13:56, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>> On Sun, 24 Dec 2017 07:50:45 -0800, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-12-23 17:49, krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 23 Dec 2017 15:27:20 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> rickman wrote on 12/23/2017 3:17 PM:
>>>>>>> Joerg wrote on 12/23/2017 3:09 PM:
>>>>>>>> On 2017-12-23 12:03, rickman wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joerg wrote on 12/23/2017 10:39 AM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In the US there are efficient commuter trains and on short
>>>>>>>>>> distance
>>>>>>>>>> passenger traffic is the larger revenue generator no matter what
>>>>>>>>>> people say.
>>>>>>>>>> Not freight.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No one is saying there aren't a few passenger routes that make
>>>>>>>>> money.
>>>>>>>>> It is possible.  But you can't run a railroad on passenger
>>>>>>>>> service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.intheblack.com/articles/2015/09/01/bullet-trains-and-the-economics-of-high-speed-railways
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Quote "Within one decade, the line generated enough income to
>>>>>>>> cover its
>>>>>>>> development and running costs". They are clocking in profits year
>>>>>>>> after year.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, this conversation has been about US trains.  Should have
>>>>>>> said, "in
>>>>>>> the US".  Of course it is possible with something like bullet
>>>>>>> trains, but
>>>>>>> again we are discussing existing rail service.  The railroads in
>>>>>>> the US
>>>>>>> aren't going to build "bullet" trains on their dime.  So for all
>>>>>>> practical
>>>>>>> purposes in the US, there will not be profitable passenger
>>>>>>> railroads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If there is enough usage to gain other benefits, I would support
>>>>>>> subsidies
>>>>>>> of specific rail routes.  But they don't seem to work well with a
>>>>>>> delicate
>>>>>>> balance between how much subsidy and how much usage.  Some lines are
>>>>>>> worth
>>>>>>> the expense, others aren't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remember, a rail line is not a railroad!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually, you should have read more of that article.  "It comes
>>>>>> down to
>>>>>> geographics and population density. It’s going to work very well
>>>>>> in some
>>>>>> countries and not so well in other countries.”  Elsewhere they
>>>>>> discuss
>>>>>> failures and non-starters in Taiwan, Spain, Australia and the US.
>>>>>
>>>>> And that, in a nutshell, has been the *entire* argument, here.
>>>>>
>>>>>> At best rail passenger service is hit or miss.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mass transit only works where there is a mass of people (all traveling
>>>>> from one place to another).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We've got plenty of that in the US. One example of many is Silicon
>>>> Valley. Rents and home prices are unaffordable for many so they must
>>>> live in the bedroom communties around. Farther away than lightrail
>>>> goes.
>>>> Job mobility is extremely high. Population density is very high. All
>>>> that is the perfect breeding ground for passenger rail. Or in this
>>>> case,
>>>> would be.
>>>
>>> No, we really don't have a lot of that in the US.  A *few* large
>>> cities, perhaps, but that's it.  There is a vast territory between
>>> those few waste islands that has no use for passenger rail of any
>>> kind.  Few cities are prime candidates, for that matter.
>>>
>>
>> When have you been in the Bay Area last time? When one city ends the next
>> one begins, immediately. There is no free turf in between. There can't be
>> because it would be a colossal waste of financial opportunity to let any
>> land sit idle (unless mandated by some enviro-whatever agency).
>
> Yes, that's what he said, "few cities"...  Do you understand the meaning
> of "few"?
>

It is most certainly more than a few. Go there and look. Drive through 
there. Then you'll see. It is one city after the other starting with San 
Francisco, all the way down to Morgan Hill and then all the way back up 
the other side of the bay to Richmond. Also, there are many other areas 
in the US that are like that.

Essentially almost any large metropolis with the surrounding industrial 
areas would have been a prime candidate for passenger rail. People can't 
afford to live in the city or don't want to but they must get to work 
there. However, the infrastructure is often so messed up that rail is no 
longer a viable option.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 07:00 -0500
  Re: OT: Muppets amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-12-19 08:37 -0600
    Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 09:49 -0500
      Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 10:00 -0500
    Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 09:56 -0500
    Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-19 08:53 -0800
      Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 12:20 -0500
        Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 14:27 -0800
          Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-19 15:24 -0800
          Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:39 -0500
        Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-19 20:53 -0500
          Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 10:08 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:19 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-12-20 10:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:11 -0800
              Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 21:52 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:24 -0500
  Re: Muppets "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-12-19 16:48 -0600
    Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:08 -0500
      Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:26 -0500
  Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:01 -0800
    Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:46 -0500
      Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:56 -0800
        Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 19:25 -0500
          Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 16:44 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:01 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 07:59 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:07 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:31 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 14:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:00 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 16:06 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-21 12:14 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 17:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 12:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:21 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 16:12 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 01:32 +0000
              Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:40 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:02 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 16:47 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:16 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 10:50 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:17 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:00 -0500
            Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 08:08 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-20 09:17 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:26 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 11:17 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:14 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:18 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:48 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:59 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:30 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 19:40 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:41 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 22:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:52 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-21 14:53 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:30 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 16:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 08:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 10:23 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 17:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 14:53 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 18:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 20:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 20:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:07 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:04 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 07:39 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 12:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:17 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:27 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:49 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:50 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 16:56 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 14:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 17:51 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 15:15 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:41 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 23:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 05:48 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 09:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 17:29 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2017-12-25 20:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 21:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:47 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 19:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-26 00:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-26 15:13 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-25 07:18 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:25 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-29 02:01 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-28 21:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 19:47 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-29 01:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 23:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 10:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-28 21:41 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:39 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:46 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 12:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-25 21:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:47 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:31 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 18:36 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:13 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:41 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 14:16 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 22:56 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:12 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 15:26 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 23:37 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:26 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-21 08:45 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-21 09:29 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-20 15:30 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:08 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:36 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:09 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:28 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:02 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 16:33 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 21:09 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 22:55 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 09:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-21 18:06 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 21:59 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 02:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 11:45 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 18:02 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 22:39 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 23:01 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 09:05 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 10:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 14:00 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:51 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:15 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:43 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 21:25 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 09:58 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 08:29 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 06:06 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 17:53 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 03:41 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 09:12 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 15:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 08:52 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:40 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 19:49 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 20:03 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:53 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-22 20:49 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 16:26 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:36 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 08:19 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:30 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 15:09 -0500

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