Groups > sci.electronics.design > #489064

Re: OT: Muppets

From	Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: OT: Muppets
Date	2017-12-22 12:58 -0800
Message-ID	<fa59uuFq44uU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <f9vfm3Ff6ncU1@mid.individual.net> <p1e8se$cu3$1@dont-email.me> <fa2cvuF5iofU1@mid.individual.net> <X_adncmLa-2si6HHnZ2dnUU7-bfNnZ2d@giganews.com> <4058639d-be1b-4df9-928c-55d4c02ad7b1@googlegroups.com>

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On 2017-12-21 17:58, whit3rd wrote:
> On Thursday, December 21, 2017 at 12:14:51 PM UTC-8, John Robertson wrote:
>> On 2017/12/21 10:31 AM, Joerg wrote:
>
>>> mankind is quite learning-resistant. For example, in the hills near
>>> Fukushima there are stone markers from hundreds of years ago reading
>>> something like "Do not build anything valuable below here because
>>> eventually the sea will take it away" (quite obviously referring to
>>> tsunamis). Then, they built a nuclear power station way down there and
>>> didn't even place the emergency generators high enough or up into the
>>> hills. We all know how that ended.
>
>> https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/century-old-warnings-against-tsunamis-dot-japans-coastline-180956448/
>>
>> While I couldn't find a direct reference to Fukushima it stands to
>> reason that engineers should have been aware of tsunami risk...
>>
>> Just need some foresight.
>
> There WAS awareness at Fukushima, thus there was a seawall.    It just wasn't high enough.
> There was redundancy, too, but multiple failures.  Seismologists didn't know from a century of data
> that the fault was capable of such a large quake (foresight, we've always known, is
> not as accurate as hindsight).
>

Sure they knew. Or should have:

http://pubmedcentralcanada.ca/pmcc/articles/PMC3621565/

Quote "... 1896 by a giant local tsunami of the highest run-up height of 
38 m that claimed 22,000 lives". There were more.

> There's no sign that learning resistance is the problem with the train crash, either: PTC is
> mandated, and could have prevented it, if delays hadn't been requested and granted.
> So, should we learn not to request delays?  Not grant them?
>
> It wasn't learning at fault, it was railway do-ers not heeding learners.
>

Learning includes required or prudent safety measures and that is where 
there was a clear lack of learning. Train accidents are very well 
documented and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out the 
myriad train wrecks that could have been prevented by external train 
control.

It's the same with EEs. I should have absolutely no business in medical 
device design if I would not have thoroughly engrained EN60601 and 
UL60601 in my brain. University did not teach me that, I did. And no, I 
did not wait until something happened or until some rule became law. For 
example, when a company wanted to scale back a design to 
non-defibrillator-proof level because it was not legally required I told 
them in no uncertain terms that I would refuse and bow out of the 
project. So the design was done defibrillator-proof. Only a few months 
after introduction of the product a cardiologist made the cardinal 
mistake and applied the paddles without disconnecting our gear. It can 
happen, unexpected cardiac arrest in a patient can cause somewhat of a 
panic in younger docs. A SW engineer of the company happened to be there 
and he wiped the sweat off his forehead.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 07:00 -0500
  Re: OT: Muppets amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-12-19 08:37 -0600
    Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 09:49 -0500
      Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 10:00 -0500
    Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 09:56 -0500
    Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-19 08:53 -0800
      Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 12:20 -0500
        Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 14:27 -0800
          Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-19 15:24 -0800
          Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:39 -0500
        Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-19 20:53 -0500
          Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 10:08 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:19 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-12-20 10:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:11 -0800
              Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 21:52 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:24 -0500
  Re: Muppets "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-12-19 16:48 -0600
    Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:08 -0500
      Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:26 -0500
  Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:01 -0800
    Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:46 -0500
      Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:56 -0800
        Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 19:25 -0500
          Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 16:44 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:01 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 07:59 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:07 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:31 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 14:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:00 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 16:06 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-21 12:14 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 17:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 12:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:21 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 16:12 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 01:32 +0000
              Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:40 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:02 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 16:47 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:16 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 10:50 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:17 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:00 -0500
            Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 08:08 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-20 09:17 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:26 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 11:17 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:14 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:18 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:48 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:59 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:30 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 19:40 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:41 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 22:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:52 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-21 14:53 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:30 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 16:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 08:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 10:23 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 17:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 14:53 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 18:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 20:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 20:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:07 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:04 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 07:39 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 12:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:17 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:27 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:49 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:50 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 16:56 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 14:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 17:51 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 15:15 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:41 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 23:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 05:48 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 09:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 17:29 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2017-12-25 20:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 21:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:47 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 19:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-26 00:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-26 15:13 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-25 07:18 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:25 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-29 02:01 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-28 21:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 19:47 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-29 01:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 23:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 10:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-28 21:41 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:39 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:46 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 12:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-25 21:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:47 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:31 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 18:36 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:13 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:41 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 14:16 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 22:56 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:12 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 15:26 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 23:37 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:26 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-21 08:45 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-21 09:29 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-20 15:30 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:08 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:36 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:09 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:28 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:02 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 16:33 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 21:09 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 22:55 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 09:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-21 18:06 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 21:59 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 02:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 11:45 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 18:02 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 22:39 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 23:01 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 09:05 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 10:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 14:00 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:51 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:15 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:43 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 21:25 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 09:58 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 08:29 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 06:06 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 17:53 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 03:41 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 09:12 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 15:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 08:52 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:40 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 19:49 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 20:03 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:53 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-22 20:49 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 16:26 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:36 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 08:19 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:30 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 15:09 -0500

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