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Re: OT: Muppets

From Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Newsgroups sci.electronics.design
Subject Re: OT: Muppets
Date 2017-12-23 07:39 -0800
Message-ID <fa7bl6F9kdsU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (10 earlier) <FBf%B.106461$Wq7.49086@fx44.iad> <fa5gnrFrkg5U1@mid.individual.net> <p1k655$goe$1@dont-email.me> <g4br3dh8m1s96bj6uiflj9h36oketa05v9@4ax.com> <110e5af2-3f5a-42d7-a9e5-2b263ca5a3bc@googlegroups.com>

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On 2017-12-22 19:04, bill.sloman@ieee.org wrote:
> On Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 12:11:02 PM UTC+11,
> k...@notreal.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 18:57:26 -0500, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Joerg wrote on 12/22/2017 5:53 PM:
>>>> On 2017-12-22 14:23, Michael A Terrell wrote:
>>>>> krw@notreal.com wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joerg:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, that goes for about 1/2 million people around here,
>>>>>>> many of which regularly join the big trek on I-80 to
>>>>>>> Silicon Valley. It's not about me, I don't have to travel
>>>>>>> much. If we as a nation want to encourage more usage of
>>>>>>> public transport then the method above ain't working.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They don't *WANT* rail.  You do but blame them because
>>>>>> you're not pleased with their decision.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Railroads in the United States were built to haul cotton and
>>>>> coal. Passenger service was always a secondary service.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not always:
>>>>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_railway_history#/media/File:DeWitt_Clinton_(locomotive).jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
http://passengertrainjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/lv-passenger-01.jpg
>>>>
>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/25/Amtrak_California_Zephyr_banner.jpg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
... I grew up with a major
>>>>> rail line behind my home that ran from Detroit to Florida.
>>>>> There were two daily passenger runs, in a single
>>>>> railcar/engine. It had controls on both ends, and the
>>>>> passengers rode n the middle. It was an express that ran
>>>>> between two cities, early morning and in the evening.
>>>>>
>>>>> Freight cars were designed to fit bales of cotton, with no
>>>>> wasted space. Coal cars and ore carriers are filled from the
>>>>> top, and emptied from the bottom, over a low bridge. The
>>>>> steel mill had trucks lined up to receive the coal, and to
>>>>> transport it to their mile+ diameter coal pile. It was a 24
>>>>> hour a day operation to keep a couple week supply of coal to
>>>>> convert into coke, for the carbon needed to make steel.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have some lines here as well that were mostly for freight.
>>>> The ones into the Sierra are now largely abandoned and one has
>>>> become my mountain bike route to the east and west. Rail
>>>> freight has gone to trucks in our area. Last time I saw freight
>>>> cars being hauled to Schnitzer Steel in Rancho Cordova, CA, a
>>>> recycling company, was in the late 90's. That track has now
>>>> become a lightrail line, passengers-only.
>>>
>>> It's often no point trying to get you to understand things when
>>> you have made up your mind.  You are cherry picking a few
>>> isolated facts to support a wrong conclusion.  Railroads have
>>> always been about freight and passenger service was only provided
>>> because it was needed and often was the justification for giving
>>> the railroad eminent domain to obtain right of way. Freight is
>>> what pays for the railroad and every railroad in the country
>>> would happily see passenger service go away so they can more
>>> efficiently move freight.  Passenger service really does waste
>>> rail time and space relative to the economic benefit.
>>
>> With a few exceptions (that can be counted on one hand) you're
>> absolutely right.  Passenger rail in the US is just silly.  It
>> makes no sense and (so) people don't want it.
>
> Passenger rail in the US is implemented very badly. This is probably
> a more or less deliberate ploy to sell more cars, and to make
> air-travel more attractive.
>

In the US there are efficient commuter trains and on short distance 
passenger traffic is the larger revenue generator no matter what people 
say. Not freight. Shorthaul freight by rail is all but dead and the 
evidence is right next to my regular mountain bike route. On long 
stretches it flips and there freight wins. The problem is that the 
longhaul freight trains also use the tracks that are use by shorthaul 
commuter trains and that does not work well. That is one of the reasons 
why many people in Northern California don't consider Amtrak.

For longer distances on trains you need bullet trains and with very few 
exceptions those systems aren't and never will be anywhere close to 
making a profit, or just breaking even. They are on the taxpayer dime 
forever which isn't good.


> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
>
> The US political system does work to favour capitalist with lots of
> money to spend on lobbyists over less well-off regular travelers.
>

Now that's nonsense.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 07:00 -0500
  Re: OT: Muppets amdx <nojunk@knology.net> - 2017-12-19 08:37 -0600
    Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 09:49 -0500
      Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 10:00 -0500
    Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 09:56 -0500
    Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-19 08:53 -0800
      Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 12:20 -0500
        Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 14:27 -0800
          Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-19 15:24 -0800
          Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:39 -0500
        Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-19 20:53 -0500
          Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 10:08 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:19 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-12-20 10:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:11 -0800
              Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 21:52 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:24 -0500
  Re: Muppets "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-12-19 16:48 -0600
    Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:08 -0500
      Re: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-19 18:26 -0500
  Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:01 -0800
    Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:46 -0500
      Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 15:56 -0800
        Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 19:25 -0500
          Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-19 16:44 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:01 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 07:59 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:07 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:31 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 14:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:00 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 16:06 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-21 12:14 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 17:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 12:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:21 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 16:12 -0800
            Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 01:32 +0000
              Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 20:40 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:02 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 16:47 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:16 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 10:50 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:17 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:00 -0500
            Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 08:08 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-20 08:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-20 09:17 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:26 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-21 10:58 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 11:17 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:14 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 14:18 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:48 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:59 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:30 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 19:40 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:41 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 22:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 10:52 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-21 14:53 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 12:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-21 19:30 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-21 16:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 08:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 10:23 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 17:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-22 14:53 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 18:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 20:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-22 20:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:07 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 19:04 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 07:39 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:03 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-23 12:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:17 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 15:27 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:49 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:50 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 16:56 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 14:37 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 17:51 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 15:15 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:41 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 23:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 05:48 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 09:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 17:29 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> - 2017-12-25 20:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 21:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:47 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-25 19:09 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-26 00:33 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-26 15:13 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 22:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-25 07:18 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-25 18:25 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-29 02:01 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-28 21:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 19:47 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-29 01:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-28 23:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-25 10:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-28 21:41 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-24 18:39 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-12-24 07:46 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 12:23 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-25 21:57 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:47 -0500
              Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 13:31 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 18:36 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:10 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 12:13 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:41 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 16:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 14:16 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Steve Wilson <no@spam.com> - 2017-12-20 22:56 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:12 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-12-20 15:26 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-20 23:37 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:42 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:26 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-12-21 08:45 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-21 09:29 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> - 2017-12-20 15:30 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:08 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 18:36 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-20 22:09 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 15:28 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-20 14:02 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 16:33 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 21:09 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-20 22:55 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 09:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-21 18:06 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 21:59 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 02:56 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 11:45 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-22 18:02 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 22:39 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-22 23:01 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 09:05 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 10:04 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Michael A Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 14:00 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets krw@notreal.com - 2017-12-23 20:51 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:15 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:38 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:43 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 21:25 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 09:58 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 08:29 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 06:06 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-24 17:53 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 03:41 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-24 09:12 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-24 15:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 08:52 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:40 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 19:49 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-23 14:55 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-12-23 20:03 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 17:53 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-12-22 20:49 +0000
                Re: OT: Muppets rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 16:26 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> - 2017-12-22 15:36 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 08:19 -0500
                Re: OT: Muppets bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-12-23 06:30 -0800
                Re: OT: Muppets bitrex <bitrex@de.lete.earthlink.net> - 2017-12-23 15:09 -0500

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