Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > aus.computers > #60547

Re: The Government's War on Encryption

From "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Newsgroups aus.computers
Subject Re: The Government's War on Encryption
Date 2017-07-29 10:54 +1000
Message-ID <eu24pvFebn2U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <olb7vh$4um$1@gioia.aioe.org> <ett3jqF991aU1@mid.individual.net> <oldrc6$9g4$1@gioia.aioe.org> <etvehrFpvrmU1@mid.individual.net> <olgeh7$hfk$1@gioia.aioe.org>

Show all headers | View raw



"Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message 
news:olgeh7$hfk$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Computer Nerd Kev" <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A new law proposed by Turnbull appears to be aimed at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undermining
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the security of all popular online services using
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encryption
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to secure user's data. Particularly those offering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> end-to-end
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encryption which ensures that even the service operators
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no way of accessing data stored and transferred through
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> systems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With this in mind, I feel it should be asked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If terrorism enables the erosion of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities offered by the internet,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Taint gunna happen, you watch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one of the key projects of the Western world in the 21st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> century,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20th, actually.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh yes, never noticed. Funny that. Or perhaps I just meant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been advanced and popularised significantly during the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 21st
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> century?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has it not, to some extent, begun to win?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And whatever that fool Turdbull wants, isnt going to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happen.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is no way that Apple will be providing anything 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allows govt to snoop on what you are doing and even if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were that stupid, it completely trivial to ensure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> govt can't do that, whatever legislation govt produces.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The internet isn't all run by Apple (thankfully),
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, but that was just one example of an operation that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wouldn?t do that even if Turdbull did make that law here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I doubt Apple would do it even if it was law in the US
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rubbish,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We'll see...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Apple have been part of NSA's Prism program since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012, along with Google, Facebook, and more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How odd that the FBI had to try to get the court to order 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assist with getting the data they wanted from a particular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> While Apple were looking to clear their name.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even sillier than you usually manage.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OK, if you insist.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The NSA and the FBI doubless don't share the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> same relationships with companies anyway.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Even sillier than you usually manage.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> OK, if you insist.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> True they might not have known if they were hacked, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they didn't go into panic mode when they found out either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They fixed the problem when it became clear what had 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The NSA documents released didn't describe the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual exploits or backdoors used, so how would
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we know whether everything was fixed or not?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because we know that the exploit that was used to get the
>>>>>>>>>>>> info the FBI wanted by the 3rd party is not there any longer,
>>>>>>>>>>>> so that technique can't be used with updated phones now.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One backdoor being fixed doesn't mean that every backdoor was
>>>>>>>>>>> fixed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yet another straw man being thrashed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So you don't care whether they "fixed the problem" or not?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I know they did fix that particular problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If they fixed one particular means of access used by the NSA,
>>>>>>> that doesn't fix the problem of the NSA using other means to
>>>>>>> access data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The NSA wouldn?t have any other means to access data
>>>>
>>>>> Data outright, and the particular data
>>>>> that they want, may be different.
>>>>
>>>> Even sillier than you usually manage, and that?s saying something.
>>
>>> That's saying something then is it? Well if you can just
>>> work out what I'm saying we might get somewhere.
>>
>> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>>
>>>>>> if they have to try monstering the manufacturers to have
>>>>>> backdoors that they can use and when the FBI has to try
>>>>>> to make apple provide access to that data thru the courts.
>>>>
>>>>> The FBI and the NSA might not share the same access.
>>>>
>>>> Very bloody unlikely that the FBI would choose to get egg all
>>>> over its stupid face admitting that it doesn?t by trying to get
>>>> the courts to force Apple to weaken the security of their devices.
>>
>>> Why?
>>
>> Even you can't actually be that fucking stupid.
>>
>>> It's not publicly known what the NSA can and can't do.
>>
>> Irrelevant to what the FBI would be stupid enough to get egg all over its
>> face about.
>
> You're still missing my point.

You never had a point apart from the one on your pointy little head.

> The public don't know exactly what the NSA can and can't access,

But we do have the evidence that the FBI tried to use the courts
to force apple to help them do that and stopped trying to do
that when a 3rd party did that for them in a particular situation.

> so the FBI wouldn't look stupid if they weren't allowed
> access certain data because the public wouldn't know
> whether the NSA could access that data in the first place.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that’s saying something.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just because some fool journo claims something...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> But when they claim something while showing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual slides from the NSA describing the system...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have no idea where those slides came from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The NSA certainly doesn't admit that they are theirs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Then Snowden and the Guardian went to
>>>>>>>>>>> quite a lot of trouble just to make up a story.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But you don?t know where he got those slides from.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But the yanks want to arrest him for the leak,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He leaked a hell of a lot  more than just that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So why would he back the Guardian when
>>>>>>> they only publish things they've made up?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because he aint about to admit to having made it up, fuckwit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so why would he set himself up as the
>>>>>>>>> fall guy when the story is fake anyway?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No one really knows why he did what he did.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And it isnt relevant to your stupid claim about Apple anyway.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of course it is, the slides mention Apple.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But don?t say anything like what you claimed about Apple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I claimed that they show the NSA had access to their customer data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It does nothing of the sort.
>>>>>
>>>>> Only to those with their heads in the sand.
>>>>
>>>> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>>>>
>>>>>>> Whether that was by accident or design on Apple's part is unknown.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like hell it is. We know that Apple refused to do what the FBI 
>>>>>> wanted.
>>>>>
>>>>> FBI, not NSA, and they may have just been trying
>>>>> to improve public perceptions after the NSA leak.
>>>>
>>>> Even sillier than you usually manage, and that?s saying something.
>>>>
>>>> Public perceptions arent going to be improved by forcing
>>>> apple to allow snooping on the phone owner's data.
>>>
>>> I'm saying that Apple may have been trying to improve their
>>> damaged public perception by putting up a fight, not the FBI.
>>
>> Even sillier than you usually manage, and that's saying something.
>>
>> They have no damaged public perception.
>
> Yes they have, from the Prism leaks showing that either they had
> cooperated with the NSA, or their security was weak enough to
> allow the NSA to get in.

You don’t know that the NSA did get in. ALL you know is that some
purported slide had the word apple on it. You don’t even know if its
actually a real NSA slide, or even if it is, whether the NSA was lying
about what they could do to try to discourage fuckwits from using
any sort of electronic device to communicate with, to make it much
harder to do what they want to do. 

Back to aus.computers | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-15 05:19 +0000
  The Government's War on Encryption jonz <johnhhhinton7@gmail.com> - 2017-07-15 05:27 -0700
  Re: The Government's War on Encryption Jeßus <j@j.net> - 2017-07-16 08:49 +1000
  Re: The Government's War on Encryption SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2017-07-16 10:46 +1000
    Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-16 01:49 +0000
      Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-17 01:33 +1000
  Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-16 20:29 +1000
    Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-16 23:17 +0000
      Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-19 17:23 +1000
        Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-19 23:13 +0000
          Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-20 20:39 +1000
            Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-20 23:04 +0000
              Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-23 02:31 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-23 00:10 +0000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-23 11:14 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-23 23:10 +0000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-24 11:13 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-25 23:10 +0000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-26 15:23 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-26 23:18 +0000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-27 13:05 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-27 23:01 +0000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-28 10:24 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-28 22:40 +0000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-29 10:54 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-30 01:46 +0000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-07-24 19:08 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2017-07-25 23:12 +0000
    Re: The Government's War on Encryption Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-07-16 19:27 -0500
      Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-19 17:30 +1000
        Re: The Government's War on Encryption Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-07-20 06:33 -0500
          Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-21 05:49 +1000
          Re: The Government's War on Encryption keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-07-21 16:27 +1000
            Re: The Government's War on Encryption Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-07-22 08:28 +1000
            Re: The Government's War on Encryption Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-07-26 06:32 -0500
              Re: The Government's War on Encryption keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-07-26 21:58 +1000
                Re: The Government's War on Encryption Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2017-07-30 02:53 -0500
    Re: The Government's War on Encryption Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> - 2017-07-17 11:01 +1000
      Re: The Government's War on Encryption "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-07-19 17:31 +1000

csiph-web