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Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?)

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, comp.ai.nat-lang, sci.lang.semantics
Subject Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?)
Followup-To comp.theory
Date 2020-07-15 16:48 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87lfjkixu6.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <avadnRPjFtHdvJDCnZ2dnUU7-dfNnZ2d@giganews.com> <87pn8ykrwq.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <7e-dnQpoj9jkoZPCnZ2dnUU7-UHNnZ2d@giganews.com> <875zapk0bb.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <zsCdncdz36GK7ZPCnZ2dnUU7-S_NnZ2d@giganews.com>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

Followups directed to: comp.theory

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olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:

> On 7/14/2020 8:56 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 7/14/2020 11:00 AM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/13/2020 7:26 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/13/2020 5:42 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> φ = ∀x ∈ ℕ ∀y ∈ ℕ (x + y = y + x)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> φ is not true or false in Q because Q lacks a mapping in Q from φ to a
>>>>>>>>> Boolean value.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would you like to learn why that's wrong, or would you rather just keep
>>>>>>>> repeating it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you'd like to learn, you have to be a student.  I'd ask a student to
>>>>>>>> consider an instance of x + y = y + x in Q, for example this one:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>       S0 + SS0 = SS0 + S0.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and I'd ask them: what can you say about this formula in Q?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you get from point "A" to point "B" when no path from point "A"
>>>>>>> to point "B" exists?  YOU DON'T !!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This does not appear to answer my question.  Are you implying that
>>>>>> nothing can be said about S0 + SS0 = SS0 + S0 in Q?  Because that is not
>>>>>> the case.  Here's a hint: apply the axioms for + to the LRS and to the
>>>>>> RHS.
>>>>>
>>>>> That you can prove that 1 + 2 = 2 + 1 in Q merely diverts attention
>>>>> away from the fact that this expression ∀x ∈ ℕ ∀y ∈ ℕ (x + y = y + x)
>>>>> cannot be proved in Q.
>>>>
>>>> Your rant about paths made me think you did not know that S0 + SS0 = SS0
>>>> + S0 is a theorem of Q.  I will assume you accept that every formula of
>>>> the form S^n0 + S^m0 = S^m0 + S^n0 is also a theorem of Q.  (Do say if
>>>> you dispute this.)
>>>>
>>>> My next questions (I continue to assume you want to learn) would be: do
>>>> you know what a model of Q is?  Could you give an example of a model of
>>>> Q?  This is crucial.  I need you to understand a bit about models of Q
>>>> so I can explain why ∀x ∈ ℕ ∀y ∈ ℕ (x + y = y + x) is, in fact, a rather
>>>> confusing formula.  It has two meanings and they are subtly different.
>>>
>>> This is the subject of the last few threads:
>>>
>>> https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C28&q=%22true+and+unprovable%22+godel&btnG=&oq=
>>>
>>> Ultimately True(T, φ) is a mathematical mapping in T from φ to a
>>> Boolean value.
>>
>> I had hoped you wanted to learn what logicians mean by "true".  
>
> Do you understand that the only thing that it can possibly mean is
> what I just said using more steps and more complex language?

I refuse to understand a falsehood.  You equate truth with provability
and that is incorrect.  Formulas are true (or false) models of T not in
T itself.  A theorem of T will be true in all models of T so of course
people use a shorthand and might say that it's true in T, but it's
important to remember that it's a shorthand.

>> The
>> example of Robinson arithmetic is an enlightening one (that's why it was
>> devised) but if you'd rather just re-state you opinions (as it anyone
>> should care about them), go ahead.  My offer to explain still stands.
>> Just say if you know what a model is, and we can take it from there.
>>
> Here is what I know of model theory:
>     Satisfiability
>     A formula is satisfiable if it is possible to find an interpretation
>     (model) that makes the formula true.
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfiability
>
>     Interpretation (logic)
>     An interpretation is an assignment of meaning to the
>     [non-logical] symbols of a formal language.
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretation_(logic)
>
>     Model theory
>     A model of a theory is a structure (e.g. an interpretation)
>     that satisfies the sentences of that theory.
>     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_theory

That tells me you know how to cut and paste.  Do you really know what a
model is?  For example, can you give two essentially different models of
Q?  This a hard question, and I don't expect you to be able to answer it
yet, but you could have a stab at it and I'll try to steer you towards
an answer based on how far you get.  Of course, you might surprise me!

When you can do this, you will understand why addition can not be proved
to be commutative (nor not commutative) in Q -- a simple example of an
incomplete theory.

>>> What I just said is correct and true and a proper use of all the terms
>>> that I used.
>>
>> That is not an opinion that is widely shared.
>
> Anyone fully understanding mathematical mapping knows that I am
> correct about this.

Unless you have changed your mind and no longer equate truth with
provability you are wrong about this.

I am going to digress to explain why talking about models is so
important, but please don't let this detract from the more important
material above.

A formula you've talked a lot about, namely,

  ∀x ∈ ℕ ∀x ∈ ℕ x + y = y + x

is not, in fact, a well-formed formula of Q (at least not in any version
of Q that I know) so asking about it's provability in Q is pointless.
The presence of an explicit set, ℕ, means that it looks more like a
formula about a /model/ of Q (and it may well be provable in whatever
theory it is a formula of).  Universal quantifiers don't usually admit
sets like that in formal theories so we should be talking about

  ∀x ∀x x + y = y + x

instead which /is/ a formula of Q (and is therefore not probable in Q
for more interesting reasons).  In fact, it's very common to use a
notation where universal quantification is not even written out and is
simply assumed for any unbound variable.  In that case we'd simply write

  x + y = y + x

-- 
Ben.

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Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-05 22:52 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 22:06 -0600
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-05 23:33 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 22:58 -0600
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-06 00:41 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 23:59 -0600
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-06 11:20 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-06 11:18 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 13:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 15:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 14:17 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 15:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 14:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 17:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 18:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 19:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-07 19:28 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 21:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-07 21:29 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 22:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-08 12:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 14:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-10 10:39 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 08:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 08:03 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 12:41 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 21:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 23:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 22:43 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 00:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 23:39 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 00:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-08 00:14 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 10:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-08 09:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:09 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 06:56 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 11:33 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 12:13 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 12:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 07:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 12:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 11:54 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 14:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 17:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 09:42 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 10:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 10:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 11:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 12:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 11:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 13:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 12:12 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 15:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 14:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 15:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 15:00 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 20:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 04:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 18:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (TRUTH BEARER DEFINED) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 22:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (TRUTH BEARER DEFINED) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 00:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 11:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 12:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 13:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 13:36 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 15:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 16:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 15:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 17:21 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:53 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 23:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 07:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 08:47 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 19:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 17:28 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-10 19:21 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 13:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-11 12:25 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:05 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-12 14:10 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 13:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 14:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 17:22 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 19:32 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 22:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 08:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 19:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 19:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 09:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 08:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:22 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:30 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 11:24 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 20:38 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 16:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 19:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 23:48 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:36 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 11:25 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 11:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 18:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 12:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 11:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 15:19 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 23:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:49 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 00:34 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 01:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 16:16 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:59 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-18 03:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:01 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-18 17:17 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 12:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-18 15:08 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 20:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-19 03:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 12:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:30 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 12:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-19 20:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 15:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-20 02:44 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 12:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-21 01:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 21:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-20 19:59 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 10:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-21 10:00 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 19:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-21 17:57 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 09:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-22 02:03 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 09:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-23 00:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 09:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-19 22:23 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 10:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-20 10:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-17 12:16 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:09 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:22 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-13 13:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 10:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-13 20:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 12:24 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 [--Obvious Yet?--] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 14:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 18:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 17:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 09:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 09:53 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-13 23:42 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 18:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-14 01:26 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 22:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-14 17:00 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 18:15 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-15 02:56 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 21:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 20:30 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 23:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Mapping to Boolean) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 09:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-15 16:48 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 11:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 01:37 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 22:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 16:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 14:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:32 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:00 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-17 02:17 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 21:01 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-17 03:54 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 23:27 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-17 11:36 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 11:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 11:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 14:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-07-17 20:28 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 16:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-07-17 20:26 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 16:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:47 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 18:01 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 21:34 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 13:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 21:09 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 10:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-18 15:05 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:23 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 18:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 21:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 13:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 22:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 14:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:17 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 21:53 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 18:23 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 11:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 11:21 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 13:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-17 12:10 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-07-17 11:50 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-07-18 02:21 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 16:19 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 16:12 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 11:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 20:25 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 14:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 15:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:18 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:38 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 00:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 18:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 01:16 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 17:44 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 20:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 02:19 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 22:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 16:08 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 14:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 17:52 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 21:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 20:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 22:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 21:38 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 00:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 22:26 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 00:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-14 14:41 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2020-07-14 18:24 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 17:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2020-07-15 18:08 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 18:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 17:30 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:53 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-12 23:48 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 00:58 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 13:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 14:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 15:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 15:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-14 00:56 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-13 23:26 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 16:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 13:12 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 12:53 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 15:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 17:21 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 15:58 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 18:01 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 04:10 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-08 12:39 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 23:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-09 00:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 09:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 09:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 12:15 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 15:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 16:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 07:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Shell game) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 19:04 -0500

csiph-web