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Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF)

Subject Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF)
Newsgroups comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy, comp.ai.nat-lang, sci.lang.semantics
References (20 earlier) <redn6g$hu$1@dont-email.me> <z9KdnWX7sa3zF5fCnZ2dnUU7-L3NnZ2d@giganews.com> <reeb3b$euu$1@dont-email.me> <Xaydnb_pW71SoJbCnZ2dnUU7-QfNnZ2d@giganews.com> <refjgj$ktj$1@dont-email.me>
From olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com>
Date 2020-07-12 13:51 -0500
Message-ID <HO2dneR3Eb4AxpbCnZ2dnUU7-LnNnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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On 7/12/2020 1:07 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:
> On 2020-07-12 10:43, olcott wrote:
>> On 7/12/2020 1:37 AM, André G. Isaak wrote:
>>> On 2020-07-11 21:58, olcott wrote:
>>>> On 7/11/2020 7:57 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:
>>>>> On 2020-07-11 18:24, olcott wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> φ = (∀x ∀y (x + y = y + x))
>>>>>> (Q ⊬ φ ∧ Q ⊬ ¬φ) Means that φ is neither true nor false in Q.
>>>>>
>>>>> No. It doesn't. You can assert this as many times as you want, but 
>>>>> true and provable are not synonyms. The fact that commutativity 
>>>>> cannot be proven in Q does not mean it is not true of Q. Your own 
>>>>> personal definitions of 'true' are of no interest to people working 
>>>>> in the field of logic.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How can it shown to be true in Q ?
>>>> Show me the steps in Q that indicate it is true in Q.
>>>
>>> As has been pointed out numerous times, one must step outside of Q to 
>>> demonstrate this. That's what true but not provable in Q means. 
>>
>> Are you sure that you are correct about this? Can you point me to 
>> links that verify that this is the actual official position?
>>
>>> Your failure to grasp this is only because you refuse to actually 
>>> learn what 'true' and 'provable' mean and instead pretend they both 
>>> mean the latter.
>>>
>>>>>> If φ is neither true nor false in Q then it cannot be logically 
>>>>>> equivalent to anything in Q.
>>>>>
>>>>> But φ (if defined as x + y = y + x), *is* true in Q.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is easy to see that "ice cream is a dairy product" in neither 
>>>>>> true nor false in first order logic because it is not even 
>>>>>> expressible in first order logic.
>>>>> Why would that not be expressible in first order logic?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Even if some abstract relation such as
>>>> Is_a_type_of(ice_cream, Dairy_Product) can be stipulated first order 
>>>> logic lacks any means to show whether or not this abstract relation 
>>>> is satisfied. It simply does not know about ice cream or dairy 
>>>> products.
>>>>
>>>> FOL could be augmented with an axiom so that it can determine 
>>>> whether or not Is_a_type_of(ice_cream, Dairy_Product) is satisfied, 
>>>> yet without this augmentation Is_a_type_of(ice_cream, Dairy_Product) 
>>>> does not map to any Boolean values in FOL, thus us not true in FOL.
>>>
>>> No. Without the addition of an axiom it is simply a contingent 
>>> statement. The law of the excluded middle demands that it be either 
>>> true or false.
>>
>> Natural language are expressive enough to see the error of this.
>> Is the sentence: "What time is?" True false or neither?
> 
> Truth is a property of propositions. In natural language, propositions 
> correspond to DECLARATIVE sentences. Questions are not declarative 
> sentences.
> 
> More importantly, though, formal logic is NOT a theory of natural 
> language. How natural language works is absolutely irrelevant to how 
> formal logic works.
> 
>> The error of this is much harder to see in formal language because its 
>> expressiveness has been intentionally limited.
>>
>>>> THIS SEEMS TO BE A BRAND NEW INSIGHT INTO THE NATURE OF TRUTH BEARERS
>>>
>>> If it seems to you like some 'brand new insight', that's only because 
>>> you have never bloody bothered to read even the most basic, 
>>> introductory textbook on the subject of first-order logic, a subject 
>>> which you nonetheless feel qualified to pontificate on.
>>
>> This is a brand new insight into the philosophical underpinnings of 
>> the nature of truth itself. Previously the term "truth bearer" was 
>> officially defined as some sort or true or false kind of thingy.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth-bearer
>>
>> When we define a "truth bearer" as a mapping from expressions of 
>> language to Boolean values we nail down the succinct essence of 
>> philosophical concept of truth bearer in a way that logicians can 
>> precisely understand.
>>
>> If we assume that this philosophical underpinning of the nature of 
>> truth itself is correct then for an expression of the language of Q to 
>> be true in Q there must be a mathematical mapping in Q from this 
>> expression in Q to a Boolean value in Q. If there is not such 
>> mathematical mapping in Q then the expression is not a truth bearer in Q.
>>
>>>
>>> Any intro text will distinguish between statements which are valid 
>>> (true in all interpretations), invalid (false in all 
>>> interpretations), and CONTINGENT (true in some interpretations, false 
>>> in others).
>>>
>>
>> And if this intro text is based on an incorrect philosophical 
>> underpinning of the nature of truth itself, then this intro text would 
>> be incorrect on this basis.
> 
> Look, I know you think you have some special insight into the nature of 
> truth. I think you're wrong, but putting that aside, it is also not 
> relevant to any of the discussion at hand.
> 
> You seem incapable of grasping the fact that in any formal system, all 
> concepts are rigorously defined, and whether that definition corresponds 
> to some definition in another domain is not germane to the discussion.
> 
> In logic, 'truth' is simply a primitive. All propositions are either 
> true or false. Never both. Never neither. What 'truth' means outside of 
> logic may be a question of interest, but it has no bearing on how the 
> logical notion of truth is defined. If some real-world usage diverges 
> from this, that isn't an issue for logic. It simply means logic is not 
> the appropriate tool to use to discuss that particular usage.
> 
> Similarly, 'provable' is rigorously defined, and it's definition is not 
> the same as true. A proposition is provable if there is some sequence of 
> valid inferences which will allow you to get from the axioms of the 
> system to that proposition. True isn't even mentioned in this definition.
> 
> The same holds for any other formally-defined concept.
> 
> In theories of arithmetic, for example, 1 + 1 = 2. Always. In the "real 
> world", things are more complex than that. One pebble plus one pebble 
> gives two pebbles, but one puddle plus one puddle might give you two 
> puddles, or it might give you one somewhat larger puddle. And one rabbit 
> plus one rabbit gives you fucking Australia. None of this has any 
> bearing on the fact that in formal theories of arithmetic 1 + 1 = 2.
> 
> For you to argue that truth works differently than how it is defined in 
> logic is like arguing that the knight and rook's moves in chess are 
> improperly defined since everyone knows that horses are capable of 
> moving in a straight line and that masonry tends to be stationary.
> 
> How knights and rooks move in chess is determined by the rules of chess. 
> Similarly, how true and false work in logic is defined by the rules of 
> logic. Arguing about how *you* think truth 'really' works is simply 
> pointless since these terms are already rigorously defined in the 
> context of formal logic.
> 
> André
> 

In classical logic a sentence in a language is true or false under (and 
only under) an interpretation and is therefore a truth-bearer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth-bearer#Sentences_in_languages_of_classical_logic 


So using the technical terms of the art correctly any expression of the 
language of any formal system lacking an interpretation is not a truth 
bearer in this formal system thus is neither true nor false in this 
formal system.

∀x ∀y (x + y = y + x) is neither true nor false in Q because it lacks an 
interpretation in Q.

-- 
Copyright 2020 Pete Olcott

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Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-05 22:52 -0500
  Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 22:06 -0600
    Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-05 23:33 -0500
      Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 22:58 -0600
        Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-06 00:41 -0500
          Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-05 23:59 -0600
            Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-06 11:20 -0500
              Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-06 11:18 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (axiomatic basis of truth) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 13:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 15:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 14:17 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 15:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 14:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 17:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 18:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 19:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-07 19:28 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 21:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-07 21:29 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 22:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-08 12:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 14:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-10 10:39 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 08:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 08:03 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:17 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 12:41 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 21:52 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-07 23:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 ∃φ (φ ↔ T ⊬ φ) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 22:43 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 00:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-07 23:39 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 00:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-08 00:14 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 10:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-08 09:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:09 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 11:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 06:56 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:02 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 11:33 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:23 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 12:13 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 12:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 07:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 12:14 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 23:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 11:54 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 14:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-10 17:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 09:29 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 09:42 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 10:54 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 10:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 11:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 12:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 11:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 13:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 12:12 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 15:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 14:27 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 15:42 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-10 15:00 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 20:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 04:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 18:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (TRUTH BEARER DEFINED) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 22:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (TRUTH BEARER DEFINED) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 00:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 11:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 12:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 13:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 13:36 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 15:31 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 16:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 15:37 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 17:21 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:53 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 23:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 07:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 08:47 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 19:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 17:28 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (NATURE OF TRUTH ITSELF) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-10 19:21 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 13:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-11 12:25 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:05 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-12 14:10 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 13:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 14:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 18:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 17:22 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 19:32 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 22:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 08:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 19:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 19:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 09:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 08:57 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:22 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:30 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 11:24 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 20:38 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:16 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 16:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 19:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 18:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-13 23:48 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:20 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:26 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-14 09:36 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 11:25 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 11:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 18:42 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 12:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 11:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 15:19 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 23:19 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:49 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 00:34 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 01:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 16:16 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:59 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-18 03:13 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:01 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-18 17:17 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 12:43 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-18 15:08 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 20:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-19 03:45 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:05 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 12:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-19 11:30 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 12:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-19 20:51 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-19 15:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-20 02:44 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 12:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-21 01:52 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 21:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-20 19:59 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 10:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-21 10:00 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-21 19:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-21 17:57 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 09:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-22 02:03 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 09:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-23 00:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-22 09:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-19 22:23 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-20 10:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-20 10:50 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-17 12:16 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:04 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:09 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:22 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-13 13:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 10:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-13 20:01 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 12:24 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 [--Obvious Yet?--] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 14:58 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 18:33 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 17:46 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 09:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 09:53 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 10:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-13 23:42 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 18:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-14 01:26 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 22:06 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-14 17:00 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 18:15 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-15 02:56 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 21:55 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-14 20:30 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 23:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Mapping to Boolean) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 09:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-15 16:48 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 11:46 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 11:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 01:37 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 22:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 16:05 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 14:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:32 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:00 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-17 02:17 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 21:01 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-17 03:54 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 23:27 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-17 11:36 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 11:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 11:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 14:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-07-17 20:28 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 16:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Kaz Kylheku <793-849-0957@kylheku.com> - 2020-07-17 20:26 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:39 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 16:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:40 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:47 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 18:01 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:24 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 21:34 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 22:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 13:34 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 21:09 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 10:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-18 15:05 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:23 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 18:52 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 18:01 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:35 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 21:55 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 13:49 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-17 22:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 14:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-18 02:17 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Membership algorithm) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 21:53 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 18:23 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 11:51 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 11:21 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 13:41 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:36 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:04 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-17 12:10 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-07-17 11:50 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:00 -0500
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-17 17:46 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 17:07 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 00:30 +0100
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2020-07-18 02:21 +0000
                Re: Simply defining G"odel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 16:19 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-17 22:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-18 16:12 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-18 11:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-15 20:25 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 16:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 14:31 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:45 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 15:58 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 21:18 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-16 22:38 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 00:35 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 18:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 01:16 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 19:28 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-15 17:44 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 20:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 02:19 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 22:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-16 16:08 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 14:20 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-16 13:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-16 22:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 17:52 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 21:12 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 20:11 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 22:48 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 21:38 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 00:03 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 22:26 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 00:32 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Alan Smaill <smaill@SPAMinf.ed.ac.uk> - 2020-07-14 14:41 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 10:14 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2020-07-14 18:24 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-14 17:44 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2020-07-15 18:08 +0000
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-15 18:47 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-12 17:30 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-12 19:50 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-12 18:53 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-12 23:48 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 00:58 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 13:07 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 14:12 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 15:32 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 15:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-14 00:56 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-07-13 23:26 +0100
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-13 16:10 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-13 09:57 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-13 13:12 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 12:53 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 16:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 15:06 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 17:21 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) David Kleinecke <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 15:58 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-10 18:01 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-11 04:10 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-11 19:13 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-08 12:39 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 23:37 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2020-07-09 00:40 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 09:38 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 09:18 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 12:15 -0700
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Are we there yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 15:10 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 16:25 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2020-07-09 07:02 -0600
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V27 (Simple enough yet?) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-09 11:11 -0500
                Re: Simply defining Gödel Incompleteness and Tarski Undefinability away V24 (Shell game) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2020-07-08 19:04 -0500

csiph-web