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Groups > comp.lang.c > #155154
| From | Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! |
| Date | 2020-09-19 07:37 -0700 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <86v9g9zvbv.fsf@linuxsc.com> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <87o8m4o0vv.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <86d02i1e46.fsf@linuxsc.com> <87eemyclkz.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <86zh5mz1yw.fsf@linuxsc.com> <slrnrmbr2i.8c1.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid> |
Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> writes: > On Sat, 2020-09-19, Tim Rentsch wrote: > >> Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes: >>> >>>> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes: >>>> >>>>> Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> writes: >>>>> >>>>>> This is good news for those cross-compiling their software. Not sure >>>>>> how hopeful I am though, does MSVC even support C99 properly now? >>>>> >>>>> That won't ever happen. C11 made VLAs optional and that cleared the way >>>>> for MS to support later standards. >>>> >>>> Do you know why Microsoft objected to VLAs? I've searched the >>>> web a bit but wasn't able to find anything with any real >>>> substance. >>> >>> The article at the top of this thread cited this article: >>> https://devblogs.microsoft.com/cppblog/c11-and-c17-standard-support-arriving-in-msvc/ >>> which says: >>> >>> Astute readers will note that VLAs are also not >>> supported. Variable length arrays are generally less efficient >>> than comparable fixed sized arrays, and generally inefficient >>> compared to equivalent malloc(), when safely and securely >>> implemented. VLAs provide attack vectors comparable to those >>> of the infamous gets() ? deprecated and destined to removal >>> ? for opportunities of ?shifting the stack? and other >>> exploits. For these reasons we intend not to support VLAs as >>> an optional feature in C11. >> >> Ahh, that is helpful. Thank you. > > But it's written twenty years after they made their decision, so it's > not as helpful as it could have been. Maybe the blogger didn't know > the background, so he picked the standard arguments against VLAs. I take your point, and in fact I had similar thoughts when replying to Keith's message. The explanation given smacks of post hoc rationalization. There is no requirement that VLAs must be allocated on the stack -- if they thought using malloc is faster and safer then they could just as well as implemented VLAs using malloc to allocate them. Furthermore why now rather than 2012 when VLAs became optional? No reason to wait those eight years if VLAs were the only holdup. Considering all that, there is a distinct possibility that the true motivation had more to do with satisfying a business agenda more than it did with satisfying a technical agenda. Still it is interesting to hear what they said about why VLAs are unacceptable, even though what they said is very likely not the whole story.
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Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2020-09-16 04:55 -1000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2020-09-16 15:23 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 17:49 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 12:53 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-16 19:58 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2020-09-16 22:31 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 21:10 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 12:28 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 17:00 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 02:13 +0300
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 07:44 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-18 22:08 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 06:54 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-09-17 11:05 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2020-09-20 00:41 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 11:03 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-20 15:51 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 07:41 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-20 14:41 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-20 14:39 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 16:55 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-20 17:10 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 18:14 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-20 10:44 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-20 21:14 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-20 15:40 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 08:34 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 12:55 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-20 21:16 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-20 20:40 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 19:39 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 09:20 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 11:25 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 14:27 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 22:24 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 08:49 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-21 15:09 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-21 15:26 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 11:40 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 14:48 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 06:03 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 16:44 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 12:06 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 20:03 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 18:33 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 11:09 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-20 16:13 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 09:53 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 12:51 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-16 21:00 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 05:28 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 17:03 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2020-09-17 16:45 +0300
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 16:59 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-09-17 19:36 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 17:08 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 06:11 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 22:38 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-09-18 10:12 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 12:26 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 19:18 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 19:19 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 04:21 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 19:28 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-17 16:53 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-17 16:28 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-18 00:46 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-18 07:31 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 17:53 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 01:02 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 17:34 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 20:57 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:43 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 11:01 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 13:33 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-11-29 00:23 -0800
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-09-18 20:53 -0400
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 21:38 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-09-18 22:50 -0400
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 20:09 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 23:52 -0500
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:42 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 06:43 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-18 20:32 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-18 20:06 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-18 22:04 +0200
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-18 21:05 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-18 23:05 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-18 23:14 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 14:09 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-18 22:33 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:20 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 23:44 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:59 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-19 11:32 +0000
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-19 07:37 -0700
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-19 12:43 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 13:52 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 13:58 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-19 19:18 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 23:03 +0100
Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-19 23:54 +0100
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