Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!!

From	Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c
Subject	Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!!
Date	2020-09-19 23:54 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<877dspfkds.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References	(3 earlier) <86d02i1e46.fsf@linuxsc.com> <874knugfeq.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <gan9H.1085102$Ng5.718545@fx16.am4> <87sgbdfx5z.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <rfv9H.1304612$%j6.466049@fx03.am4>

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Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:

> On 19/09/2020 19:18, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Bart <bc@freeuk.com> writes:
>>
>>> On 19/09/2020 12:43, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>> Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is good news for those cross-compiling their software.  Not sure
>>>>>>> how hopeful I am though, does MSVC even support C99 properly now?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That won't ever happen.  C11 made VLAs optional and that cleared the way
>>>>>> for MS to support later standards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you know why Microsoft objected to VLAs?  I've searched the
>>>>> web a bit but wasn't able to find anything with any real
>>>>> substance.
>>>>
>>>> No I don't.  There was some talk I can't locate anymore about how
>>>> Windows allocates stack, but I don't recall the details nor do I know if
>>>> the information was reliable.
>>>
>>> It's enough to know that the stack can overflow and cause a crash, and
>>> VLAs make that easier.
>>
>> That's not enough to answer the question.  First, because it's not true
>> (unless you contrive a special notion of "easier") and, second, it does
>> not single out any one system and/or compiler.
>
> I suspect that any example I can contrive, nor any argument, is going
> to convince you whether something is easier or not. But for anyone
> else, consider this:
>
>    int A[atol(argv[1])];
>
> This works with a parameter of 100000, but fails with 1000000.
(not on my laptop, but the actual numbers are not the point)

That's not easier than int A[-1ull]; but you've changed the rules:

> It must be marginally harder to cause a /conditional/ stack overflow,
> depending on program inputs, without using a VLA, and on a program
> that would otherwise do meaningul work.

That may be so.  I was commenting on what you wrote.

> Yes, implementers can choose to allocate VLA data on the heap, but
> then that removes the main advantage of VLAs in that they are faster
> to allocate and deallocate than heap memory.

I disagree.  I don't think I've ever used one in a situation where that
sort of performance difference could possibly matter (though I can
imagine it might in some highly contrived cases).  The advantages for me
are that the compiler arranges for the deallocation and the syntax is
simpler -- particularly when it comes to multi-dimentional arrays with
variably modified types.

-- 
Ben.

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Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Real Troll <real.troll@trolls.com> - 2020-09-16 04:55 -1000
  Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Jens Stuckelberger <Jens_Stuckelberger@nowhere.net> - 2020-09-16 15:23 +0000
  Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 17:49 +0200
    Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 12:53 -0700
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-16 19:58 +0000
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! doctor@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) - 2020-09-16 22:31 +0000
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 21:10 -0700
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 12:28 +0200
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 17:00 -0700
    Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 02:13 +0300
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 07:44 +0200
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-18 22:08 +0200
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 06:54 +0200
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-09-17 11:05 +0000
    Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2020-09-20 00:41 -0700
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 11:03 +0200
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-20 15:51 +0200
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 07:41 -0700
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-20 14:41 +0000
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-20 14:39 +0000
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 16:55 +0200
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-20 17:10 +0200
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 18:14 +0200
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-20 10:44 -0700
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-20 21:14 +0200
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-20 15:40 -0700
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 08:34 +0200
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 12:55 -0500
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-20 21:16 +0200
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-20 20:40 +0100
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 19:39 -0500
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 09:20 +0200
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 11:25 +0100
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 14:27 +0200
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 22:24 -0700
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 08:49 +0200
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-21 15:09 +0200
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-21 15:26 +0200
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 11:40 +0100
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-09-21 14:48 +0200
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 06:03 -0700
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 16:44 +0100
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 12:06 -0500
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-21 20:03 +0100
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 18:33 -0500
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-21 11:09 -0500
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-20 16:13 +0000
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 09:53 -0700
  Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 12:51 -0700
    Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-16 21:00 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 05:28 -0700
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 17:03 -0700
  Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2020-09-17 16:45 +0300
    Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 16:59 +0200
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-09-17 19:36 +0000
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 17:08 -0700
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 06:11 +0200
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 22:38 -0700
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2020-09-18 10:12 +0000
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 12:26 +0200
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 19:18 -0700
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 19:19 -0700
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 04:21 +0200
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 19:28 -0700
    Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-17 16:53 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-17 16:28 -0700
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-18 00:46 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! already5chosen@yahoo.com - 2020-09-18 07:31 -0700
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 17:53 -0500
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 01:02 +0100
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 17:34 -0700
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 20:57 -0500
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:43 -0700
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 11:01 +0100
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 13:33 -0500
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-11-29 00:23 -0800
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-09-18 20:53 -0400
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 21:38 -0500
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-09-18 22:50 -0400
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 20:09 -0700
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! BGB <cr88192@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 23:52 -0500
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:42 -0700
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-09-19 06:43 +0200
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-18 20:32 +0200
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-18 20:06 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-09-18 22:04 +0200
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-18 21:05 +0100
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-18 23:05 +0100
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-18 23:14 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 14:09 -0700
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-18 22:33 +0100
      Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:20 -0700
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 23:44 -0700
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-18 23:59 -0700
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-19 11:32 +0000
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-09-19 07:37 -0700
        Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-19 12:43 +0100
          Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 13:52 +0100
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 13:58 +0100
            Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-19 19:18 +0100
              Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-09-19 23:03 +0100
                Re: Microsoft Will now support C11 and C17 standard!!!!!!!!!! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-09-19 23:54 +0100

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