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Re: Language (was RamDisc0)

From Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.sys.acorn.misc
Subject Re: Language (was RamDisc0)
Date 2011-11-18 10:06 +0000
Organization Russell Hafter Holidays
Message-ID <5234037687see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <5231a9f2c1ajg@argonet.co.uk> <3cfe3b3352.news@mistymornings.net> <4ec53ec2$0$2500$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr> <5233b19be1see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> <6520f73352.Matthew@sinenomine.freeserve.co.uk>

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In article <6520f73352.Matthew@sinenomine.freeserve.co.uk>,
   Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <5233b19be1see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid>
>  on 17 Nov 2011 Russell Hafter News  wrote:

> > In article
> > <4ec53ec2$0$2500$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>, Rick
> > Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > > I believe that every language has a certain "bull"
> > > factor. In French, we could say it is the gender
> > > issue which doesn't seem to serve any actual purpose.

> > Whether or not grammatical gender serves any actual
> > purpose, it is hardly unique to French. AFAIK, English
> > is almost alone among Indo-European languages in have
> > lost the use of grammatical gender. I do not know about
> > gender in Frisian, and I do know that Afrikaans has no
> > grammatical gender.

> I think a lot of English people get the wrong impression
> of grammatical gender because, with the descriptions
> "masculine", "feminine" and "neuter" they think it has
> something to do with biological sex and can't see the
> point of having female apples and male melons.

> But the word gender is equivalent to the French "genre",
> a word which we also use in English.  All it means is a
> grouping of things of a similar type, and the
> designations "masculine" and "feminine" just show that
> the words in the respective genres tend to behave the
> same way as things which are really masculine and
> feminine.  But of course there are exceptions. 
> Diminutives in German having a tendency to be neuter is
> one example.

The classic example in German is 'Das Weib' - the same word
as the English 'Wife' - which is neuter. Though I cannot
think when I last heard the word in converstion, or even
read it in a contemporary book.

All grammatical  diminutives (those created with the
suffixes -chen and -lein, and their regional variations) are
neuter, so you also have 'Das Fräulein' - 'Miss' or 'young
woman' and 'Das Mädchen' - 'girl' which are neuter too.

The (to me) strange thing is that in Dutch and the
Scandinavian languages, the two genders are 'common' and
'neuter', ie masculine and feminine have fused into one. In
German, it is masculine and neuter that are already very
similar grammatically, while feminie is noticeably
different.

[Snip]

> See http://www.linguism.co.uk/language/gender-and-sex for
> an interesting discussion of this.

Quite. Well worth a read, thanks. I wonder if there are
quivalent articles from the perspective of other languages?

-- 
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays         E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Need a hotel? <http://www.hrs.com/?client=en__blue&customerId=416873103>

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RamDisc0 Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-11-11 18:05 +0000
  Re: RamDisc0 Ron <beeb@woosh.co.nz> - 2011-11-12 11:19 +1300
    Re: RamDisc0 Alan Calder <alan_calder@o2.co.uk> - 2011-11-11 23:04 +0000
      Re: RamDisc0 Alan Griffin <ajg@argonet.co.uk> - 2011-11-11 23:17 +0000
  Re: RamDisc0 Frank de Bruijn <zuiderduin@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-12 08:14 +0100
    Re: RamDisc0 Sprow <news@sprow.co.uk> - 2011-11-12 00:55 -0800
    Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-12 18:35 +0000
      Re: RamDisc0 workstuff@mail.com - 2011-11-13 19:09 +0100
        Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-13 20:05 +0100
          Re: RamDisc0 Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2011-11-13 22:07 +0000
            Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-13 22:33 +0000
            Re: RamDisc0 Ron Briscoe <ron.briscoe@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-11-13 22:56 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-14 05:55 +0000
            Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-14 01:52 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-14 06:00 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-14 10:14 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Ron Briscoe <ron.briscoe@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-11-14 17:31 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-14 18:53 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 John Tytgat <this@is.invalid> - 2011-11-14 21:34 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2011-11-14 22:01 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-14 21:12 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:14 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:57 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Mister Ron <mrronman@googlemail.com> - 2011-11-14 14:14 -0800
                Re: RamDisc0 Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2011-11-14 22:42 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 Vince M Hudd <vinceh@softrock.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 12:40 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 20:44 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Vince M Hudd <vinceh@softrock.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 22:40 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:11 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-15 20:39 +0000
        Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-13 20:17 +0000
          Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-13 22:13 +0100
            Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-13 21:47 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:17 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 (now OT) Dr Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:14 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 (now OT) Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:56 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 (now OT) Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-16 05:38 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 (now OT) Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-16 08:37 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 (now OT) Dr Peter Young <pnyoung@ormail.co.uk> - 2011-11-16 08:14 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:49 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 22:24 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 23:38 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 John <newsmcc@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2011-11-16 13:29 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 Doug Webb <doug.j.webb@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-15 19:26 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-11-15 19:55 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-16 05:49 +0100
          Re: RamDisc0 workstuff@mail.com - 2011-11-16 22:39 +0100
            Re: RamDisc0 Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-11-19 09:52 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 workstuff@mail.com - 2011-11-22 09:50 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 Bryn Evans <d@a.invalid> - 2011-11-22 16:02 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-11-26 16:10 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 workstuff@mail.com - 2011-11-28 11:40 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-29 07:40 +0100
        Re: RamDisc0 Alan Griffin <ajg@argonet.co.uk> - 2011-11-13 20:36 +0000
          Re: RamDisc0 workstuff@mail.com - 2011-11-16 22:47 +0100
            Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-17 18:05 +0100
              Re: RamDisc0 Barry Punchard <barry.punchard@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-17 20:19 +0200
                Re: RamDisc0 M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2011-11-17 21:03 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Richard Travers <richtnews@uwclub.net> - 2011-11-18 09:59 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Barry Punchard <barry.punchard@btinternet.com> - 2011-11-18 14:19 +0200
              Re: RamDisc0 Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2011-11-17 19:12 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Matthew Phillips <spam2011m@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-18 07:51 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2011-11-18 10:06 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-11-22 13:39 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-11-22 13:24 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-11-24 15:28 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2011-11-24 15:48 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) News poster <workstuff@mail.com> - 2011-11-28 11:40 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-08 11:09 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) SG nws <nwsgrp@ntlworld.com> - 2011-12-08 10:15 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-08 12:02 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-10 13:15 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-12-12 10:29 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-12-12 11:18 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-12-12 12:12 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2011-12-12 22:53 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-12-13 12:58 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2011-12-13 16:05 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-12-13 17:35 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Dave Symes <dave@triffid.co.uk> - 2011-12-13 18:57 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-12-13 19:15 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-14 08:09 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) "David Holden" <SpamBin@apdl.co.uk> - 2011-12-14 07:53 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> - 2011-12-14 23:30 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-15 07:24 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) "Felicity S." <Fliss@orpheusnet> - 2011-12-16 00:05 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-16 09:27 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-14 08:06 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) nervus <nervus@spam.nl> - 2011-12-12 19:53 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Russell Hafter News <see.sig@walkingingermany.invalid> - 2011-12-12 20:45 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-12 23:08 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) nervus <nervus@spam.de> - 2011-12-14 11:54 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-12-13 06:25 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) nervus <nervus@spam.de> - 2011-12-14 11:46 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-12 22:48 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Harriet Bazley <bazley@feathermail.co.uk> - 2011-12-13 01:46 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-12-13 14:07 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-14 18:46 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-12-15 11:28 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-15 15:57 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-12-12 11:16 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-12 22:56 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2011-12-08 11:32 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-12-08 11:03 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) workstuff@mail.com - 2011-12-08 12:04 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-11-25 11:41 +0000
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) News poster <workstuff@mail.com> - 2011-11-28 11:40 +0100
                Re: Language (was RamDisc0) Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-11-26 16:12 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 Rosemary Miskin <miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk> - 2011-11-17 19:17 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Alan Dawes <alan.dawes@argonet.co.uk> - 2011-11-20 12:45 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-11-20 13:53 +0000
              Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-18 21:12 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-20 17:43 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-20 19:41 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Folderol <folderol@ukfsn.org> - 2011-11-20 21:17 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-11-20 23:39 +0100
                Re: RamDisc0 M Harding <riscos@mdharding.org.uk> - 2011-11-21 10:28 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 Jess <phantasm_39@hotmail.com> - 2011-11-21 10:57 +0000
                Re: RamDisc0 jgharston <jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk> - 2011-11-25 10:36 -0800
        Re: RamDisc0 Richard Travers <richtnews@uwclub.net> - 2011-11-14 11:02 +0000
  Re: RamDisc0 Rik Griffin <nospam@denbridgemarine.com> - 2011-11-14 14:50 +0000
    Re: RamDisc0 Tim Hill <tim@invalid.org.uk> - 2011-11-19 10:33 +0000

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