Re: fast divider?

From	john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design, comp.arch.fpga
Subject	Re: fast divider?
Date	2026-03-23 08:20 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<21m2sktet31h14ft5b5r3vib6tam8g4krb@4ax.com> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <6laorktu6oiu397vthkra4ilcdsqdtqpb0@4ax.com> <10plapt$26c7q$6@dont-email.me> <b6ycnSn0YLzjVCP0nZ2dnZfqn_d2XUgE@giganews.com> <cqktrkloju2vg3n9famtl0csrsev0s2b60@4ax.com> <10prct1$48cq$4@dont-email.me>

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On Mon, 23 Mar 2026 23:49:36 +1100, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:

>On 22/03/2026 4:29 am, john larkin wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Mar 2026 09:38:17 -0700, Ross Finlayson
>> <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 03/20/2026 10:36 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
>>>> On 20/03/2026 4:05 am, john larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 22:30:01 +0000, someone
>>>>> <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume these are up-counters, so the thing overflows at all 1's.
>>>>>> Then you only have the one fast carry TPD for the MS18b overflowing
>>>>>> to all 1s when a 1 is clocked into its LSB.  One whole clock period
>>>>>> to clock the 1 out of the DFF and meet the setup times for what I
>>>>>> assume is a synchronous LD and its setup for the counters. So that
>>>>>> particular timing criticality is a DFF TPD and a LD setup TSU to
>>>>>> reliably capture the register data. The LD TPD to CLK TSU for the
>>>>>> LS18b counter shouldn't be a problem. This must be very speedy logic
>>>>>> for 150MHz. Do you have a simulator that displays how much margin you
>>>>>> have on this timing, or is it just a bunch waveforms?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, loadable up-counter with carry chain.
>>>>>
>>>>> This would be in an FPGA, so the diagram is just a concept. The
>>>>> reality will be VHDL code. And the FPGA boys use the Wishbone
>>>>> architecture and want the counter to be 32 bits, which is OK with me.
>>>>>
>>>>> We are already doing a DDS at 250 MHz on this chip, an Efinix T20, so
>>>>> I expect we could do a divider in that ballpark.  The T20 is in the
>>>>> *slow* Efinix family.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the T20 has 18-bit fast carry chains.
>>>>>
>>>>> After the boys code this, the tools can verify timing.
>>>>>
>>>>> FPGAs are great, but there's a cultural gap between people who draw
>>>>> and people who type.
>>>>
>>>> Can't say I've noticed that, but since I can do both, and most of the
>>>> engineers I've hung out with could too, John Larkin may be projecting here.
>> 
>> I base the observation on people that I work with, and lately on
>> hundreds of people that I meet at maker-space meetups.
>
>You don't like hiring people with a Ph.D. My employers didn't have that 
>problem.
>
>> Many are kids with CE/EE degrees who don't know much about electricity and 
>> who don't have jobs.
>> 
>> A Linked-In ad for fpga coders will get hundreds of applicants in a
>> few days. Circuit designers, not so many. I have a couple of quick
>> tests to find the rare kid that gets electronics.
>
>And presumably also test their willingness to flatter you at every 
>possible opportunity.
>
>>> I have a lot of interest in the Bruchla circuit as about things
>>> like transistor nets to effect things like Fourier-style analysis.
>>>
>>> The Bruchla circuit among accounts of things like integrators
>>> and differentiators, is for the middling account of dividers,
>>> that otherwise doesn't have exactly a simple ideal circuit.
>>>
>> 
>> Is there some specific Bruchla frequency divider circuit?
>> 
>> There seem to be a lot of 50-year old Bruchla circuits online. Looks
>> like mostly audio.
>
>There are lots of odd ways of implementing frequency dividers. 
>Synchronous dividers can be made to work at higher frequencies than 
>ripple carry dividers, and synchronous dividers with fast carry 
>feed-forward hardware can be designed to count even faster.
>
>Duplicating known hardware solutions inside an FPGA can't be all that 
>difficult. There are some remarkably fast FPGAs around. When I last 
>looked they were remarkably expensive, but that was about twenty years ago.

Mostly people express intent in an HDL, basically say X=X+1, and the
compiler makes that happen. The things inside a modern FPGA look
nothing like 7400-series logic.

I'm doing a DDS frequency synthesizer in a $9 Efinix FPGA, running at
250 MHz. That's neither their fastest nor their cheapest part.

I'm running the DDS, driving a 5-resistor DAC and running a bunch of
other stuff, using 24 mA at 1.2v core supply. It doesn't even feel
warm.


John Larkin
Highland Tech Glen Canyon Design Center
Lunatic Fringe Electronics

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Thread

fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-15 11:47 -0700
  Re: fast divider? someone <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> - 2026-03-17 22:30 +0000
    Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-19 10:05 -0700
      Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-21 16:36 +1100
        Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-21 07:52 -0700
          Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-22 03:00 +1100
            Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-27 11:39 -0700
              Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-28 16:44 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-28 14:38 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-29 15:52 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-29 08:18 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-30 16:42 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-30 08:00 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-31 16:35 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 02:40 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-31 22:30 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 08:14 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Buzz McCool <buzz_mccool@yahoo.com> - 2026-03-31 10:41 -0700
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 10:57 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-31 14:25 -0700
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-31 15:16 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-01 16:17 +1100
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-01 16:05 +1100
                Re: fast divider? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 02:04 -0700
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-01 07:25 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-04-01 16:07 +0000
                Re: fast divider? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 09:37 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-01 15:54 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-01 01:06 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-02 02:13 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-01 09:12 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-02 14:41 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-02 07:53 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-03 02:21 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-02 08:57 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-04-03 04:05 +1100
                Re: fast divider? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2026-04-02 13:17 -0400
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-04-02 11:20 -0700
          Re: fast divider? someone <cffbf4deb9142bce48974efc0e64dede@example.com> - 2026-03-26 23:30 +0000
        Re: fast divider? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-03-21 09:38 -0700
          Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-21 10:29 -0700
            Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-23 23:49 +1100
              Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-23 08:20 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-24 23:04 +1100
                Re: fast divider? john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-03-24 05:56 -0700
                Re: fast divider? Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-03-25 02:47 +1100

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