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Groups > uk.comp.sys.mac > #183360
| From | Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.computer.workshop, comp.sys.mac.advocacy, uk.comp.sys.mac |
| Subject | Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! ) (was: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! )) |
| Organization | Southern Nevada Institute of Technology |
| References | <n0qntoF2nsU1@mid.individual.net> <n429emFgvflU1@mid.individual.net> <69dc0899$4$22$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> <n42jciFig46U1@mid.individual.net> |
| Date | 2026-04-12 23:05 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <69dc2535$2$24$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com> (permalink) |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
On Apr 12, 2026 at 3:07:14 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote <n42jciFig46U1@mid.individual.net>: > On 12/04/2026 22:03, Brock McNuggets wrote: >> On Apr 12, 2026 at 12:17:42 PM MST, ""David B."" wrote >> <n429emFgvflU1@mid.individual.net>: >> >>> On 12/04/2026 19:04, Brock McNuggets wrote: >>>> On Apr 12, 2026 at 8:27:40 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote >>>> <n41rvcFev6eU1@mid.individual.net>: >>>> >>>>> On 12/04/2026 16:11, Brock McNuggets wrote: >>>>>> On Apr 12, 2026 at 7:49:38 AM MST, ""David B."" wrote >>>>>> <n41po2Fejs2U1@mid.individual.net>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 12/04/2026 01:09, Brock McNuggets - a Mac user - responded! >>>>>>>> On Apr 11, 2026 at 2:33:38 PM MST, ""David B."" asked a question. >>>>>>>> <n3vt1iF5j1aU1@mid.individual.net>: >>>>>>> [....] >>>>>>>>> Have YOU checked to see if YOU have past EtreCheck reports hidden here? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ~/Library/Application Support/EtreCheck >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Do tell. Thanks. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have some there, but not hidden. Or maybe there are obvious ones and secret >>>>>>>> hidden ones too! :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thank you for confirming that, Brock! 🙂 >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As you are well aware, most folk never look in their Library ... >>>>>>> ..... the one under "Go" in their Finder title bar. >>>>>> >>>>>> Nor is thee any need. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Indeed, one has to press the "Option" key to display it. So, what *IS* >>>>>>> shown there is effectively hidden. Agreed? >>>>>> >>>>>> And not even always on option. Go to your Home folder and then View >Show View >>>>>> Options >>>>>> >>>>>> There is an option to show the Library folder. It will show in the Home >>>>>> folder, but then it will NOT show in the "Go" menu even if you hold option. >>>>>> >>>>>> But it is made less obvious by design... it is not something most users need >>>>>> to go into. >>>>> >>>>> That is a fair point regarding the View Options; it’s certainly a more >>>>> permanent way to keep the folder visible for those who need frequent >>>>> access to ~/Library. >>>> >>>> Well, keeps it visible in the Library (which I knew) but I thought it kept it >>>> visible in the Go menu... but it hides it from there even on Option. Either my >>>> memory is wrong or Apple changed something in the last version or so. No >>>> biggie. >>> >>> Keep up, dear boy! ;-) >> >> I will never know every little change Apple makes to its systems with each >> update. > > Ask me. I'll help if I can! Sure. Do you know if I am correct about Library still showing in the menu (with Option) even if it was set to show in the Home folder? If so, when did it change? > >>>>>>> OK >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please delete "~/Library/Application Support/EtreCheck" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Restart your computer and then check that the above item has GONE! >>>>>> >>>>>> If I reboot I will lose this message -- weakness of my client. So maybe later. >>>>> >>>>> Have you raised this wit the developer of Usenapp? >>>> >>>> I have not... though not a bad idea to do so. >>> >>> Perhaps I should start to use it again - I have paid for it! >> >> It is ... decent. It has a lot of quirks and issues but I prefer it to >> Thunderbird. Or to what Thunderbird was a few years ago. Have not tried it >> again but I doubt it has improved that much. > > Thunderbird works really well now - and it is open-source' Been a while since I used it, but I do not recall it having any real filtering system. Does it have one now? It is mostly for email with Usenet sorta an after-thought. > > Usenapp is a one-man-band application which is NOT available from the > Apple App Store. Usenapp is designed for Usenet -- though its filtering and searches are not great either. > > Have you ever wondered why Andre has banned me from asking questions on > the Usenapp Forum? Forgot he had. Do you know why? What were you doing to him? > >>>>>> But I would expect them to be gone. >>>>> >>>>> Pssst - they will be! ;-) >>>> >>>> Good. Though with my issues with iCloud / macOS recently it might come back >>>> (not likely -- that folder is not backed up on iCloud, but iCloud and my Mac >>>> are NOT doing as they should!) >>> >>> In your situation I'd restart in Internet Recovery and install a fresh >>> copy of macOS again. You won't lose any files, photos or documents. >>> >>> It doesn't take much more than half an hour or so! >> >> The issue is meta-data issues on both the local system and iCloud itself. >> Talked with an engineer today... who is escalating it even higher. > > Please start a new thread here in ACW to discuss what is actually > occurring. Not a bad idea. I might. But I think Apple Support will be the better source. I do not think anyone here has the expertise to help. And of course the trolls will use it as another avenue of attack. Look at the AI web programming discussions... Carroll jumped into attack with insane lies that if I can get *AI* to write JavaScript for me this must mean I am some sort of expert. It was insane. He did as he does -- argued with voices in his head and blamed me. And guess what -- not that anyone is obligated to, but nobody else called him out. Not you. Not Apd, Certainly none of the trolls. Seems honesty and decency is not a high value here and that is a shame. > > Has the question been raised in the Apple Support Communities (ASC) forums? Not that I know of. > >>>>>>> If it has gone, visit www.etrecheck.com, download and run Etrecheck >>>>>> >>>>>> I have no desire to download and run it again... and you do not trust it so >>>>>> why would you advise people to do this? >>>>> >>>>> Simply to establish the truth. >>>> >>>> You have already found it keeps logs in it Application Support folder. What >>>> more are you looking for? >>> >>> *WHY DOES IT KEEP A COPY*? >> >> When you run a scan it saves it there. Simple as that. If it bothers you then >> you now know where to delete it. >> >> What other apps have you checked to see what they save there? >> >>>>>>> Review the report (share with us if you wish) - keep a copy in 'Notes' >>>>>>> should you want to. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Then delete the EtreCheck report. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When appropriate, select the box saying that you do NOT want to save a >>>>>>> copy. Send the report to your Bin and then empty your Bin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All straight-forward! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now go to "~/Library/Application Support/EtreCheck" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Does the report you said that you did not wish to keep appear there? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If so ....... *WHY* is it there?!!! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please advise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Please stop focusing on EtreCheck. >>>>> >>>>> The reason I suggest this specific sequence is to highlight a matter of >>>>> user agency and data persistence. >>>> >>>> It is hardly unique. I have not tested them all, but I bet other apps do much >>>> the same. The issue here is not the app, but you digging into it in a vacuum >>>> of understanding. You assume what you find is rare or bad but you have no clue >>>> if it is normal or what the folder is even for. And then you make insinuations >>>> of wrong doing. >>> >>> It's a learning experience. I'm making NO insinuations. >> >> Then the answer is simple: Application Support is used for files the >> application needs. Might be sound and video files for a video editing app, and >> those are needed for new files. Might be old scans for comparison. Might be >> good if EtreCheck deleted old ones from there but it harms NOTHING for it to >> keep them and sometimes can help (you can compare old and new results). >> >> From ChatGPT: >> >> ----- >> Malwarebytes for Mac >> Keeps scan logs, quarantine data, and history. You won’t see it unless you go >> digging, but it’s there. >> >> CleanMyMac X >> Stores scan results, cleanup history, and smart scan data so it can show you >> “what changed” over time. >> >> DriveDx >> Tracks drive health stats over time. That history has to live somewhere, so >> it’s persisted. >> >> iStat Menus >> Keeps historical system metrics (CPU, temps, etc.) so you can view trends. >> >> Carbon Copy Cloner >> Stores task history, logs, and backup metadata. >> >> Time Machine >> Not a perfect comparison, but it also keeps local state and history files >> under Library for tracking backups. >> >> Console / system logging >> macOS itself constantly writes logs and diagnostic data behind the scenes. >> ----- >> >> It is normal macOS behavior. Nothing else to say. > > Thanks for that breakdown, Brock. The list of other apps (Malwarebytes, > CCC, etc.) and their use of Application Support for metadata and logs is > a helpful comparison. > > I certainly agree that the folder itself is standard macOS architecture > for persistent data. I suppose the "learning experience" here is the > distinction between user-facing actions (clicking "don't save") and > background application behavior (automatic archiving). What do you want to know about it? Different apps use it differently. You now know it saves old results. OK. What else are you curious about? > In many apps, "Don't Save" implies that no record will be kept, but as > your list shows, many "prosumer" (good word that!) and diagnostic tools > prioritise data retention for history and comparison over absolute > deletion. It’s a design choice—one that prioritises system recovery and > comparison over a "zero-footprint" approach. Sure. OK, "mystery" solved. > >>>>> If a user explicitly selects an option not to save a report, and then >>>>> manually empties the Bin, one would logically expect that data to be >>>>> gone. The discovery that EtreCheck may be silently archiving these >>>>> reports in ~/Library/Application Support/EtreCheck regardless of the >>>>> user's "do not save" preference is a technical observation worth noting. >>>>> It isn't about whether one "trusts" the diagnostic capabilities of the >>>>> tool, but rather how the software handles (or retains) user data behind >>>>> the scenes. >>>>> >>>>> The focus is currently there because it serves as a primary example of >>>>> how "helper" utilities interact with the macOS filesystem in ways that >>>>> aren't always transparent to the average user. >>>>> >>>>> If you do eventually decide to check that directory after a run, I’d be >>>>> interested to hear if your findings match what I’ve observed regarding >>>>> those "unsaved" reports reappearing. >>>> >>>> I have told you repeatedly I will not help you do anything that aids your >>>> harassment of him. PLEASE LEAVE HIM ALONE! >>> >>> Brock, I hear you loud and clear! It was never my intention to make you >>> feel like a participant in a personal dispute. >> >> But that is what you do when you ask others to join your at the very least >> border-line harassment of a developer. I have asked you repeatedly to NOT try >> to include me in that behavior. I find it immoral and I will not participate. >>> >>> My interest has always been strictly technical — specifically, how a >>> macOS application manages its support files and whether "delete" truly >>> means "delete" in that context. However, I respect your boundary and I >>> won't ask you to perform any further tests or checks regarding that >>> specific directory. >> >> Thank you. > > YW :-D I do hope this continues. > >>> I'll leave the matter of data persistence for others to investigate (or >>> not) as they see fit. >> >> There is nothing left to investigate. It is common macOS app behavior. > > Well, there ya go! Thanks. > >>> On a different note, if you do ever hear back from the Usenapp developer >>> about that message-loss-on-reboot issue, I'd actually be genuinely >>> interested in the fix. That sounds like a frustrating bug for any Usenet >>> regular. >> >> I might reach out to him... but fighting bigger bugs now. Sigh. > > Good luck with the Apple/iCloud engineers. Metadata issues involving iCloud > can be notoriously difficult to pin down since so much of it happens on > the server side. I hope the escalation leads to a quick resolution for you! Thanks... it is frustrating to say the least. -- It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.
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You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-03-04 12:46 +0000
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Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-03-06 15:22 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-03-22 06:18 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-03-22 20:51 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-03-22 23:36 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-04-10 07:50 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-10 08:07 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-11 14:27 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 13:50 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-11 15:21 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 14:58 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-11 19:50 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-11 20:25 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-11 22:33 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 00:09 +0000
Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules!) "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-12 15:49 +0100
Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules!) (was: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules!)) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 15:11 +0000
Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules!) "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-12 16:27 +0100
Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! ) (was: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! )) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 18:04 +0000
Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! ) "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-12 20:17 +0100
Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! ) (was: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! )) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 21:03 +0000
Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules!) "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-12 23:07 +0100
Re: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! ) (was: Today's challenge! 😈 (Was - You can protec t your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! )) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 23:05 +0000
The hidden Library! (Was - Today's challenge!) "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-13 09:08 +0100
Re: The hidden Library! (Was - Today's challenge!) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 15:42 +0000
Re: The hidden Library! (Was - Today's challenge!) "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-13 16:59 +0100
Re: The hidden Library! (Was - Today's challenge!) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-13 16:09 +0000
Re: The hidden Library! (Was - Today's challenge!) "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-14 12:29 +0100
Re: The hidden Library! (Was - Today's challenge!) Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-14 13:46 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-04-12 03:25 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 03:47 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-13 08:50 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 13:53 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-13 16:34 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 17:09 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-13 18:47 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 17:54 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-13 21:12 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 23:47 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-14 13:26 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-14 13:46 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-14 16:34 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-14 16:32 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-13 22:04 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-13 23:47 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Kelly Phillips <KFile@podcasts.org.invalid> - 2026-05-13 21:04 -0500
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-05-14 12:32 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-05-15 03:34 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-05-15 04:18 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-04-12 03:25 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 03:50 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-04-12 07:04 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-12 08:53 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 13:58 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! "David B." <David@hotmail.co.uk> - 2026-04-12 15:19 +0100
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 13:52 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 07:13 -0700
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 14:41 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 08:40 -0700
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 17:50 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 12:36 -0700
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 20:48 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 14:01 -0700
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 21:03 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 14:14 -0700
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 21:23 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 14:41 -0700
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 21:48 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 16:31 -0700
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 23:58 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-04-12 03:26 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-04-12 03:25 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-04-12 03:54 +0000
Re: You can protect your Mac from malware by following three simple rules! Gremlin <nobody@haph.org> - 2026-04-12 03:25 +0000
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