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Re: ww3

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: ww3
Date 2025-01-03 08:49 +0100
Message-ID <ltpj44F3s91U10@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <676341D1.4D35@ix.netcom.com> <6765ADD7.3E71@ix.netcom.com> <676A7322.E1E@ix.netcom.com> <vkth8q$1h1np$3@dont-email.me> <cu3anjla38uqtvkjjhq35rp9tq7m0pu5cs@4ax.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Am Mittwoch000001, 01.01.2025 um 10:58 schrieb Governor Swill:
> On Mon, 30 Dec 2024 00:14:34 -0700, Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>>
>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>> Most likely Trump already amde a peace deal with Putin, otherwise
>>
>> Which he can't legally do as a civilian.
> 
> Stop knee jerking, people.  Trump is sending signals that he is possibly even
> more hawkish than Biden on Ukraine.  Kellogg has stated that the planned peace
> proposition requires Russia and Ukraine to both lay down they arms.  Refusal by
> either side carries consequences.  If Ukraine refuses to engage in peace talks,
> the US will stop supporting them.  Otoh, if Russia refuses to engage in peace
> talks, Trump will arm Ukraine to the teeth without restrictions.
> 

Putin said on TV, that he wanted to start peace talks.

It were the Ukrainians, who rejected peace talks.

The Ukrainians wanted to 'win', but have no real chance against the 
superpower Russia.

Whether or not the Nato had, that would be a good question.

I would think, that Russia is already in a very good strategic position 
and even the entire Nato cannot push them back from there.

The reason:
Russia could sent many million soldiers very easily to the front, while 
Nato troops had to be brought there.

This is difficult, because the Nato would need ships, but the Russians 
control the Crimean peninsula and with it the entire Black Sea.

Now Nato troops could only be brought by ship over the Baltic Sea. But 
that is very narrow, shallow and too far away.

So, in effect, Nato troops could only come from the west on land, e.g. 
from Poland.

But that would be LOOOOOOONG (!!!) and dangerous (!!!!) walk, because 
Ukraine is very large and flat and provides no mountains as protective 
cover at all.

Travel by air is also not recommended, because Russia has state of the 
art air defense systems.

The Russian also have an insane amount of tanks, which are mostly old. 
But the newer 'Armata' tanks are very powerful and certainly difficult 
to defeat.


TH

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ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-14 20:09 -0800
  Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-12-15 10:14 +0100
    Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2024-12-15 03:06 -0800
    Re: ww2 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2024-12-16 06:50 +0100
  Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-16 21:24 -0800
    Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-18 13:42 -0800
      Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-20 09:34 -0800
        Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 17:16 -0600
      Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-20 09:48 -0800
        Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-20 10:08 -0800
          Re: ww3 % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2024-12-20 11:32 -0700
        Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-24 00:38 -0800
          Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2024-12-27 11:08 -0800
          Re: ww3 Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-30 00:14 -0700
            Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-01 04:58 -0500
              Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-01 04:56 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 07:21 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-02 06:43 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 22:52 -0500
              Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-01 15:05 +0000
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-02 07:21 -0500
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-03 09:12 +0000
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-04 07:38 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-03 23:40 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-05 09:05 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 14:38 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-05 12:26 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-07 06:45 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-07 00:05 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-08 08:33 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 15:09 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-09 07:55 +0100
                Re: ww3 Maciej Wozniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2025-01-09 08:02 +0100
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-09 10:01 +0000
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 01:20 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:05 -0500
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-14 08:35 +0000
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 08:57 -0500
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-15 10:57 -0800
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-15 21:35 -0800
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-16 17:17 -0800
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-15 16:28 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-10 08:15 +0100
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-14 08:53 +0000
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-16 08:56 +0100
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-16 08:25 +0000
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-18 08:27 +0100
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-19 10:35 +0000
                Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 15:29 -0600
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-20 08:38 +0100
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-20 09:58 +0000
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-16 08:56 +0000
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-18 08:33 +0100
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-18 15:58 +0000
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-19 07:40 +0100
                Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 15:35 -0600
                Re: ww3 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-01-20 14:26 +0100
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-21 07:46 +0100
                Re: ww3 Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-22 09:19 +0100
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-23 11:54 +0100
                Re: ww3 Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-23 14:12 +0100
                Re: ww3 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-01-23 22:15 +0100
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-23 14:15 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-24 09:01 +0100
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-24 10:35 -0800
                Re: ww3 Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> - 2025-01-24 20:49 +0100
                Re: ww3 nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2025-01-25 10:29 +0100
                Re: ww3 Python <jp@python.invalid> - 2025-01-25 14:01 +0000
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-25 12:14 -0800
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-08 23:08 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 01:19 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-10 08:32 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:08 -0500
                Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 22:51 -0600
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-10 08:25 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-09 23:40 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-11 09:29 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-11 11:26 -0800
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-11 14:32 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:25 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:21 -0500
                Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 16:16 -0600
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:18 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:22 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-07 20:12 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 15:11 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-08 12:14 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 14:00 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-05 11:50 -0800
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-05 11:51 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:25 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-07 06:22 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:31 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-07 20:33 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-08 09:13 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-08 01:07 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 15:19 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-11 09:39 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-11 11:39 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:33 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:31 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 15:21 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-11 09:46 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-11 11:47 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:37 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 14:02 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-07 06:28 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:34 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-08 09:00 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-08 01:09 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-09 07:44 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 15:23 -0500
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-08 16:01 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-11 09:49 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 19:39 -0500
              Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-03 08:49 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-05 14:39 -0500
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-07 06:46 +0100
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-06 23:59 -0800
                Re: ww3 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2025-01-08 08:30 +0100
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 15:23 -0500
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-08 16:04 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-08 16:07 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 01:17 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 01:18 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 01:20 -0800
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-11 11:54 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 18:41 -0800
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-11 20:32 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-11 21:00 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-16 17:52 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 17:23 -0800
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-19 19:55 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 22:39 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 22:45 -0800
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-19 23:02 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-20 00:03 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-20 00:08 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-22 21:11 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-22 23:13 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-22 23:41 -0800
                Re: ww3 Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2025-01-20 07:04 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-20 22:51 -0500
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-21 13:33 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-22 21:05 -0500
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-22 20:56 -0800
                Re: ww3 Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2025-01-19 20:49 -0800
                Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-01-09 22:41 -0600
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-10 01:25 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-09 22:46 -0800
                Re: ww3 Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 23:18 -0700
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 18:40 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-19 19:44 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-20 22:56 -0500
                Re: ww3 Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2025-01-07 11:23 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-07 22:35 -0500
                Re: ww3 Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-12 23:42 -0700
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-12 23:06 -0800
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-13 10:46 +0000
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-13 15:11 -0500
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-14 02:23 +0000
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 09:09 -0500
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-14 03:15 +0000
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-13 21:27 -0800
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-14 08:26 +0000
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 09:25 -0500
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-15 15:32 +0000
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-18 16:57 -0500
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-19 02:21 +0000
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-18 19:37 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 18:40 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 09:24 -0500
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-15 16:36 +0000
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-15 19:08 -0800
                Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2025-01-16 05:21 +0000
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-15 21:44 -0800
                Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2025-01-17 02:28 -0600
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-18 17:40 -0500
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-18 17:36 -0500
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-18 14:50 -0800
                Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-19 00:49 -0800
                Re: ww3 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 17:11 -0800
                Re: ww3 Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 23:12 -0700
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-13 15:00 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-13 12:53 -0800
                Re: ww3 Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 23:10 -0700
                Re: ww3 Gronk <invalide@invalid.invalid> - 2025-01-18 23:15 -0700
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-19 18:45 -0500
                Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-19 19:47 -0800
                Re: ww3 Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2025-01-20 22:58 -0500
      Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2024-12-21 05:48 +0000
        Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-21 14:35 -0600
          Re: ww3 bertietaylor@myyahoo.com (Bertietaylor) - 2024-12-22 05:39 +0000
            Re: ww3 Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-12-22 02:50 -0600
  Re: ww3 patdolan@comcast.net (patdolan) - 2025-01-19 03:01 +0000
    Re: ww3 Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@www.yahoo.com> - 2025-01-18 19:37 -0800
      Re: ww3 The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2025-01-19 00:55 -0800

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