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Re: astonishing correlations

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On 20-Sept-23 4:25 am, RichD wrote:
> On September 18, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> This one is inspired by recent discussion of John Bell's
>>>>> paper. It's easy/hard; non-obvious, yet simple once you see
>>>>> the solution.
>>>>> Given a pair of identical detectors, spaced far apart.
>>>>> In between, a gun, which fires a pair of particles, one
>>>>> at each detector. Each detector holds a bulb, which
>>>>> flashes red or green upon receiving a particle.
>>>>> It also holds a switch, with 3 positions. Prior to each
>>>>> trial, the switch is set to an arbitrary position, randomly,
>>>>> and independently of the other detector.
>>>>> There exists no physical connection between the detectors.
>>>>> You run 1000 trials, and observe the following:
>>>>> I) Considering each detector in isolation, the bulb
>>>>> flashes red/green, 50/50, with no apparent pattern,
>>>>> it appears completely random. And no discernible
>>>>> relation to the switch setting.
>>>>> II) Considering the pair:
>>>>> i) When both switches are set to the same position, the
>>>>> bulbs always flash the same color.
>>>>> ii) When they are set differently, there is no apparent relation
>>>>> between the colors.
>>>>> There is no communication channel between the detectors.
>>>>> How do you explain the operation of this apparatus?
>>>>> Does it seem plausible and practical, in principle?
>>>>> i.e. considering II (i). Does anything strike you as peculiar?
>>
>>>> Yes, but only because what you describe is not equivalent to the
>>>> experiments that earned the Nobel prize.
>>   
>>> <wooooosh!>
>>
>> I don't think so. You're just trying to cover up your blunder.
> 
> Most excellent!  Your juvenile response highlights the instructional value.
> Let's see, there's reference to John Bell, and the Nobel... we have two
> particles which interact, then separate, then an ambiguous property is
> measured...  does that remind you of anything?
> 
> The problem is likely too tricky, no one will solve it.  I'll offer a few hints.
> 
> II (i) is the vital point.  No connections between the detectors,  how do
> they coordinate their outputs?  There must be messages carried by the
> particles, that's the only reasonable hypothesis.  What are these messages,
> is this insoluble?  Not at all:  3 switch positions, 2 colors, the particle's state
> represents a specific instruction...  how many states, what are they?  This
> is easy, use binary, it's CS 101.
> 
> That's the first step.  The next step is the tricky part.  Eventually, with the
> given numbers, which model real reality, it leads to something peculiar -
> 
> Anyone who solves it, kudos!  You have derived Bell's theorem.  If not,
> take consolation, it eluded the entire physics community for 20 years.
> 
> --
> Rich

So what? It still bears no resemblance to the work that earned the Nobel 
prize. Bell's analysis, and the subsequent experimental verification, 
showed that a hidden variable solution does not work.

Sylvia.

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astonishing correlations RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-09-18 11:21 -0700
  Re: astonishing correlations Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-09-19 10:02 +1000
    Re: astonishing correlations RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-09-18 20:11 -0700
      Re: astonishing correlations Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-09-19 13:57 +1000
        Re: astonishing correlations RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-09-19 11:25 -0700
          Re: astonishing correlations Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-09-20 10:31 +1000
            Re: astonishing correlations Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-09-19 23:40 -0700
            Re: astonishing correlations RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-09-20 11:39 -0700
              Re: astonishing correlations Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2023-09-20 12:06 -0700
              Re: astonishing correlations Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2023-09-21 09:45 +1000
                Re: astonishing correlations RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-09-21 15:58 -0700
  Re: astonishing correlations Lou <noelturntive@live.co.uk> - 2023-09-20 02:54 -0700
  Re: astonishing correlations RichD <r_delaney2001@yahoo.com> - 2023-09-23 17:10 -0700
    Re: astonishing correlations Ken Hughes <kenhughes@aol.com> - 2023-09-25 05:48 -0700

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