Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement

From	joes <noreply@example.org>
Newsgroups	comp.theory
Subject	Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement
Date	2024-07-19 15:58 +0000
Organization	i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID	<6fd07deef9a4e8fcf02f958ba7acbb93ec5ad3ba@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References	(26 earlier) <v78fa7$1rc43$2@dont-email.me> <v7agsg$2am9u$1@dont-email.me> <v7b4l2$2e2aq$2@dont-email.me> <v7d9el$2tp5s$1@dont-email.me> <v7dtqt$30pvh$6@dont-email.me>

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Am Fri, 19 Jul 2024 09:39:25 -0500 schrieb olcott:
> On 7/19/2024 3:51 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-18 13:17:22 +0000, olcott said:
>>> On 7/18/2024 2:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-17 13:00:55 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>> On 7/17/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-07-16 14:21:28 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When simulated input DDD stops running {if and only if} the
>>>>>>> simulation of this input DDD has been aborted this necessitates
>>>>>>> that input DDD specifies non-halting behavior
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DDD does not stop runnig unless it is completely exeuted.
>>>>>
>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>> [00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping [00002164]
>>>>> 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping [00002166] 6863210000 push
>>>>> 00002163 ; push DDD [0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call
>>>>> HHH(DDD)
>>>>> [00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04 [00002173] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>> [00002174] c3         ret Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174]
>>>>>
>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantic meaning of its x86
>>>>> instructions never stop running unless aborted.
>>>>
>>>> You mean HHH's simulation of DDD may not termite before HHH aborts
>>>> it?
>>>
>>> When we examine the infinite set of every HHH/DDD pair such that: HHH₁
>>> one step of DDD₁ is correctly emulated by HHH₁.
>>> HHH₂ two steps of DDD₂ are correctly emulated by HHH₂.
>>> HHH₃ three steps of DDD₃ are correctly emulated by HHH₃.
>>> ...
>>> HHH∞ The emulation of DDD∞ by HHH∞ never stops running.
>>>
>>> When each DDD of the HHH/DDD pairs above is correctly emulated by its
>>> corresponding HHH according to the semantic meaning of its x86
>>> instructions it CANNOT POSSIBLY reach past its own machine address
>>> 0000216b, not even by an act of God.
>> 
>> You apparently mean that no HHHᵢ can simulate the corresponding DDDᵢ to
>> its termination?
> No I don't mean that at all that incorrectly allocates the error to the
> emulator.
> No DDDᵢ correctly emulated by its corresponding HHHᵢ can possibly reach
> past it own machine address 0000216b because each DDDᵢ calls its
> corresponding HHHᵢ in recursive emulation.
> 
>> For every finite i the behaviour specified by  DDDᵢ is halting.
> Unless DDDᵢ correctly emulated by its corresponding HHHᵢ can reach its
> own machine address 00002174 it cannot halt.

>>>> The behaviour specified by DDD, both by C semantics and by x86
>>>> semantics,
>>>> is halting if HHH returns. Otherwise HHH is not a decider.
>>> When HHH is required to be a pure function then only one element of
>>> the above infinite set of every possible HHH/DDD is not a decider.
>> The behavour of DDDᵢ depends on what HHHᵢ does. Wheter HHHᵢ is required
>> to what it does has no evvect on the behaviour of  DDDᵢ.
>> A pair is never a decider.
> One HHH element of the above set of pairs never halts and thus is not a
> decider. Every other HHH is a decider.
That would be HHH_oo, which is arguably not a member of that set.

> Not one DDD element of the infinite set of every possible HHH/DDD halts,
> thus every HHH that halts is correct to reject its input as non-halting.
Of course they do. They all do nothing but call a halting HHH.

How does HHH simulate itself? Why shouldn't that halt, even though both
the simulator and the input are deciders?

-- 
Am Fri, 28 Jun 2024 16:52:17 -0500 schrieb olcott:
Objectively I am a genius.

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Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-11 09:56 +0300
  Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-11 09:40 -0500
    Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-12 10:49 +0300
      Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-12 08:07 -0500
        Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-13 10:48 +0300
          Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-13 07:07 -0500
            Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott --- Ben's agreement Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-13 09:15 -0400
            Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-13 13:20 +0000
            Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-14 10:43 +0300
              Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 09:15 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-15 10:15 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 07:55 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-16 09:58 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-16 09:21 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-16 20:09 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-16 21:10 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-17 09:43 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-17 08:00 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-17 15:32 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-17 08:39 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-17 16:08 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-17 09:26 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-17 16:34 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-18 10:40 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-18 08:17 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-18 16:13 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-18 09:21 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-18 22:30 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-19 08:44 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-18 22:30 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-19 11:51 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 09:39 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-19 15:58 +0000
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-20 11:54 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 08:28 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 09:45 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-21 12:38 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 08:50 -0500
                Re: Liar detector:Peter Olcott --- Honest Dialogue ? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 11:01 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 09:13 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-22 14:32 +0000
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:08 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 19:45 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 12:51 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:16 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 13:31 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 21:30 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 14:57 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-22 21:19 +0000
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 16:36 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:24 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:17 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 10:03 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 18:46 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 12:54 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:13 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 13:18 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:55 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 14:17 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-24 11:00 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs, all wrong Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:00 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:14 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:29 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott--- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs that are all wrong Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 22:16 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-25 12:44 +0300
          Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-13 07:15 -0500
            Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-13 14:28 +0200
              Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-13 14:38 +0200
            Re: Liar detector: Petr Olcott --- Ben's agreement Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-13 09:15 -0400

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