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Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ?

From Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ?
Date 2024-07-20 09:45 -0400
Organization i2pn2 (i2pn.org)
Message-ID <8899a9c4f1f5dea6dc12824bb23e6bde36090e2b@i2pn2.org> (permalink)
References (26 earlier) <v7b4l2$2e2aq$2@dont-email.me> <v7d9el$2tp5s$1@dont-email.me> <v7dtqt$30pvh$6@dont-email.me> <v7fu0f$3ff7c$1@dont-email.me> <v7ge24$3hlc2$4@dont-email.me>

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On 7/20/24 9:28 AM, olcott wrote:
> On 7/20/2024 3:54 AM, Mikko wrote:
>> On 2024-07-19 14:39:25 +0000, olcott said:
>>
>>> On 7/19/2024 3:51 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>> On 2024-07-18 13:17:22 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 7/18/2024 2:40 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>> On 2024-07-17 13:00:55 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 7/17/2024 1:43 AM, Mikko wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2024-07-16 14:21:28 +0000, olcott said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When simulated input DDD stops running {if and only if}
>>>>>>>>> the simulation of this input DDD has been aborted this
>>>>>>>>> necessitates that input DDD specifies non-halting behavior
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DDD does not stop runnig unless it is completely exeuted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _DDD()
>>>>>>> [00002163] 55         push ebp      ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002164] 8bec       mov ebp,esp   ; housekeeping
>>>>>>> [00002166] 6863210000 push 00002163 ; push DDD
>>>>>>> [0000216b] e853f4ffff call 000015c3 ; call HHH(DDD)
>>>>>>> [00002170] 83c404     add esp,+04
>>>>>>> [00002173] 5d         pop ebp
>>>>>>> [00002174] c3         ret
>>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002174]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DDD emulated by HHH according to the semantic meaning of
>>>>>>> its x86 instructions never stop running unless aborted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You mean HHH's simulation of DDD may not termite before HHH aborts 
>>>>>> it?
>>>>>
>>>>> When we examine the infinite set of every HHH/DDD pair such that:
>>>>> HHH₁ one step of DDD₁ is correctly emulated by HHH₁.
>>>>> HHH₂ two steps of DDD₂ are correctly emulated by HHH₂.
>>>>> HHH₃ three steps of DDD₃ are correctly emulated by HHH₃.
>>>>> ...
>>>>> HHH∞ The emulation of DDD∞ by HHH∞ never stops running.
>>>>>
>>>>> When each DDD of the HHH/DDD pairs above is correctly emulated
>>>>> by its corresponding HHH according to the semantic meaning of its
>>>>> x86 instructions it CANNOT POSSIBLY reach past its own machine
>>>>> address 0000216b, not even by an act of God.
>>>>
>>>> You apparently mean that no HHHᵢ can simulate the corresponding DDDᵢ to
>>>> its termination?
>>>
>>> No I don't mean that at all that incorrectly allocates the error
>>> to the emulator.
>>
>> Anyway you did not say that some HHHᵢ can simulate the corresponding DDDᵢ
>> to its termination. And each DDDᵢ does terminate, whether simulated or 
>> not.
> 
> *Until you quit lying about this we cannot have an honest dialog*
> 
> int main()
> {
>    DDD();
> }
> 
> Calls HHH(DDD) that must abort the emulation of its input
> or {HHH, emulated DDD and executed DDD} never stop running.
> 

But HHH DOES abort, as you say it correctly answers with non-halting, 
thus you are arguing about a case that you already ruled out.

DDD halts because HHH aborts emulation of DDD becuase it (incorrectly) 
things that it will not halt. This just shows that HHH is wrong.

The fact that it halts because HHH wrongly aborts its emulation of it, 
doesn't make it non-halting, or that a correct emulation of DDD will not 
halt.

Your logic of saying HHH does a correct emulation that gets an incorrect 
answer is just incorrect.

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Thread

Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-12 10:49 +0300
  Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-12 08:07 -0500
    Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-13 10:48 +0300
      Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-13 07:07 -0500
        Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott --- Ben's agreement Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-13 09:15 -0400
        Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-13 13:20 +0000
        Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-14 10:43 +0300
          Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-14 09:15 -0500
            Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-15 10:15 +0300
              Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-15 07:55 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-16 09:58 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-16 09:21 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-16 20:09 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-16 21:10 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-17 09:43 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-17 08:00 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-17 15:32 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-17 08:39 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-17 16:08 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-17 09:26 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-17 16:34 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-18 10:40 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-18 08:17 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-18 16:13 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-18 09:21 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-18 22:30 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-19 08:44 +0200
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-18 22:30 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-19 11:51 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-19 09:39 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-19 15:58 +0000
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-20 11:54 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-20 08:28 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-20 09:45 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-21 12:38 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-21 08:50 -0500
                Re: Liar detector:Peter Olcott --- Honest Dialogue ? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-21 13:52 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-22 11:01 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 09:13 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-22 14:32 +0000
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 10:08 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 19:45 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 12:51 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 20:16 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 13:31 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-22 21:30 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 14:57 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms joes <noreply@example.org> - 2024-07-22 21:19 +0000
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-22 16:36 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:24 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 10:17 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 10:03 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 18:46 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 12:54 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:13 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 13:18 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-23 20:55 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 14:17 -0500
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-24 11:00 +0200
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs --- truisms Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:01 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs, all wrong Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-22 20:00 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-23 10:14 +0300
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-23 09:29 -0500
                Re: Liar detector: Peter Olcott--- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs that are all wrong Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-23 22:16 -0400
                Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Honest Dialogue ? --- Infinite set of HHH/DDD pairs Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2024-07-25 12:44 +0300
      Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-07-13 07:15 -0500
        Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-13 14:28 +0200
          Re: Liar detector: Fred, Richard, Joes and Alan --- Ben's agreement "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@HetNet.nl> - 2024-07-13 14:38 +0200
        Re: Liar detector: Petr Olcott --- Ben's agreement Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-07-13 09:15 -0400

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