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Major Crashing!

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  Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-09 14:44 -0700
    Re: Major Crashing! Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-09 22:57 +0000
    Re: Major Crashing! Michael Vilain <mev94303y@yahoo.com> - 2016-10-09 16:43 -0700
      Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-09 16:50 -0700
        Re: Major Crashing! befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2016-10-10 09:11 +0200
      Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-09 16:56 -0700
        Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-10 00:20 +0000
          Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-10 17:42 -0700
            Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 00:48 +0000
              Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-10 22:22 -0700
                Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 05:36 +0000
                  Re: Major Crashing! befr@eaglesoft.de (Bernd Fröhlich) - 2016-10-11 08:26 +0200
                    Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 15:54 +0000
                  Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-11 07:57 -0700
                    Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 15:54 +0000
                      Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-11 09:41 -0700
                        Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 16:51 +0000
                          Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-11 11:14 -0700
                            Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 18:18 +0000
                              Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-11 12:27 -0700
                                Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 19:39 +0000
                                  Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-11 14:38 -0700
                                    Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 22:11 +0000
                                Re: Major Crashing! "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-11 17:37 -0500
                              Re: Major Crashing! "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-11 17:35 -0500
                                Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-11 22:49 +0000
                                  Re: Major Crashing! "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-12 00:27 -0500
                                    Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-12 05:50 +0000
                                      Re: Major Crashing! "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-12 12:10 -0500
                                        Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-12 17:19 +0000
                                          Re: Major Crashing! "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-12 13:36 -0500
                                    Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-11 23:24 -0700
                                      Re: Major Crashing! "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-12 12:13 -0500
                                      Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-12 11:12 -0700
                                        Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-13 00:11 +0000
                                          Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-12 19:16 -0700
                                            Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-13 15:44 +0000
                                              Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-13 13:33 -0700
        Re: Major Crashing! Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2016-10-09 20:46 -0700
          Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-10 17:45 -0700
            Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-10 17:53 -0700
    Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-12 11:35 -0700
      Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-12 12:07 -0700
      Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-13 00:14 +0000
        Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-12 19:17 -0700
          Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-13 08:44 -0700
          Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-13 15:45 +0000
            Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-13 13:37 -0700
              Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-13 17:00 -0700
                Re: Major Crashing! Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-14 00:33 +0000
      Re: Major Crashing! "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-12 20:29 -0500
        Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-12 19:17 -0700
          Re: Major Crashing! Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-13 06:47 +0000
          Re: Major Crashing! gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2016-10-13 08:33 -0700
    Re: Major Crashing! Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2016-10-14 08:53 +1300

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#95539

On 2016-10-11, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> On 2016-10-11 18:18:54 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>
>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>
> I suppose we can move on from the topic of exactly how stupid I am or 
> am not, and exactly when I bought my first Mac.

I apologize for venting my frustration with you. : )

> Regarding finding logs that will tell me what I need to know, I haven't 
> found them yet.  I now understand that the console is a mechanism for 
> providing, all in a single location, references to documents that are 
> actually located in the bowels of the Finder in individual files. If 
> there are files in one of the many program directories within 
> ~/Library/Logs *in console* that relate to system hangs, I can't 
> identify them since there is no sort by date *in console* but more 
> problematically, they are sorted by program and lots of these programs 
> I know nothing about.

Console isn't the most useful app, but it does have its uses.

> Nevertheless, selecting any such folder at random and Revealing in 
> Finder, ascending to the Logs folder within either the base Library or 
> the user Library, I have now done searches within these locales for 
> ".hang" and have found only two old files: one each for Safari and 
> FileChute.
>
> For finding files from the time of the crash, I don't know a way to 
> isolate the folders and sub-folders through which I must sort by date, 
> for example, inside Library/Logs:
>
> CrashReporter
> DiagnosticReports
> iStat Menus
>   iStatMenusDaemon.log
>   LittleSnitchDaemon.log
>   LKDC-setup.log
> Qmaster
>   TechToolProDaemon.log
> Xsan

Open either one of the Logs folders in a Finder window. Type Command-F.
Set the search criteria to "Created date" is "within last" "1" hours (or
whatever limit you want.

> While on line with Apple yesterday that had me run a Capture Data pass 
> which I then forwarded to them.  This seems to have plenty of residue, 
> or at least shifted time-stamps, which seem to throw my timings off by 
> two hours.
>
> In the future, once crashed, and rebooted, the first thing for me to 
> do, then, would be to enter these two directories *in the finder*: 
> /Library/Logs and ~/Library/Logs.  Once there, I should open a folder 
> to begin looking for some residue at the time of crash.  Which would 
> these be?

Make note of the time of the hang and any logs that were created near
that time (just before, during, just after) are potentially relevant.

Also, any messages in the /var/log/system.log file with timestamps near
the time of the hang would be useful to know.

Post the logs here for help deciphering them.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95540

On 2016-10-11 19:39:08 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

> On 2016-10-11, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>> On 2016-10-11 18:18:54 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>> 
>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>> 
>> I suppose we can move on from the topic of exactly how stupid I am or
>> am not, and exactly when I bought my first Mac.
> 
> I apologize for venting my frustration with you. : )

I appreciate a direct apology for a specific reason; gratefully 
accepted. You're still the primary tech-aid between me and the gaping 
maw of confusion and doom.

[...]

> Open either one of the Logs folders in a Finder window. Type Command-F.
> Set the search criteria to "Created date" is "within last" "1" hours (or
> whatever limit you want.

Seems I use to do that years ago. Now I see no "hour", just "day, week, 
month, year".  I can easily do current day in the future.

>> While on line with Apple yesterday that had me run a Capture Data pass
>> which I then forwarded to them.  This seems to have plenty of residue,
>> or at least shifted time-stamps, which seem to throw my timings off by
>> two hours.
>> 
>> In the future, once crashed, and rebooted, the first thing for me to
>> do, then, would be to enter these two directories *in the finder*:
>> /Library/Logs and ~/Library/Logs.  Once there, I should open a folder
>> to begin looking for some residue at the time of crash.  Which would
>> these be?
> 
> Make note of the time of the hang and any logs that were created near
> that time (just before, during, just after) are potentially relevant.
> 
> Also, any messages in the /var/log/system.log file with timestamps near
> the time of the hang would be useful to know.
> 
> Post the logs here for help deciphering them.

All duly noted, squirreled away in my notes for future reference.  
Thanks again!

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#95541

On 2016-10-11, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> On 2016-10-11 19:39:08 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>> On 2016-10-11, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>>> On 2016-10-11 18:18:54 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>>> 
>>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>>> 
>>> I suppose we can move on from the topic of exactly how stupid I am
>>> or am not, and exactly when I bought my first Mac.
>> 
>> I apologize for venting my frustration with you. : )
>
> I appreciate a direct apology for a specific reason; gratefully
> accepted. You're still the primary tech-aid between me and the gaping
> maw of confusion and doom.
>
> [...]

I lose my patience all too quickly sometimes. Thanks for setting me
straight. : )

>> Open either one of the Logs folders in a Finder window. Type
>> Command-F.  Set the search criteria to "Created date" is "within
>> last" "1" hours (or whatever limit you want.
>
> Seems I use to do that years ago. Now I see no "hour", just "day,
> week, month, year".  I can easily do current day in the future.

Good catch. I assumed there would be an "hours". I suppose "created
date" is "today" would still suffice. Then you could narrow it down to
the appropriate time visually.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95543

On 10-11-2016 14:27, gtr wrote:
> In the future, once crashed, and rebooted, the first thing for me to do,
> then, would be to enter these two directories *in the finder*:
> /Library/Logs and ~/Library/Logs.  Once there, I should open a folder to
> begin looking for some residue at the time of crash.  Which would these be?

/var/log/system.log time stamps every entry and also puts which 
process/app it came from.  It may not have enough info to solve the 
problem, but it might give a clue for what other logs to look at.

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#95542

On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
> created around the time of the event still stands.

Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and 
especially during boot?  So it could be that none of the file dates are 
close to the time of the crash.

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#95545

Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
> On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>> created around the time of the event still stands.
> 
> Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and 
> especially during boot?  

The hang happens while the computer is running.

> So it could be that none of the file dates are 
> close to the time of the crash.

If so that would become readily apparent once he actually looks at the
logs.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95548

On 10-11-2016 17:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>> On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>>
>> Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and
>> especially during boot?
>
> The hang happens while the computer is running.

But if it's hung, the only way to look at logs is kill power and reboot, 
thus writing to at least some of the logs.  system.log gets hundreds of 
lines during boot.

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#95549

Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
> On 10-11-2016 17:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>>> On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>>> 
>>> Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and
>>> especially during boot?
>> 
>> The hang happens while the computer is running.
> 
> But if it's hung, the only way to look at logs is kill power and reboot, 
> thus writing to at least some of the logs.  system.log gets hundreds of 
> lines during boot.

So? Logs are time stamped. And the time of the hang is known. What's your
point? 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95552

On 10-12-2016 00:50, Jolly Roger wrote:
> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>> On 10-11-2016 17:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>>>>
>>>> Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and
>>>> especially during boot?
>>>
>>> The hang happens while the computer is running.
>>
>> But if it's hung, the only way to look at logs is kill power and reboot,
>> thus writing to at least some of the logs.  system.log gets hundreds of
>> lines during boot.
>
> So? Logs are time stamped. And the time of the hang is known. What's your
> point?

Didn't you tell OP to look in Finder for logs modified at the time of 
the hang?  "created around the time of the event"?  (After he complained 
that the lines in some of the logs were not time-stamped)  My point is 
that they could be modified later, i.e., during the reboot and thus 
Finder wouldn't help.

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#95554

On 2016-10-12, Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
> On 10-12-2016 00:50, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>>> On 10-11-2016 17:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>>>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and
>>>>> especially during boot?
>>>>
>>>> The hang happens while the computer is running.
>>>
>>> But if it's hung, the only way to look at logs is kill power and reboot,
>>> thus writing to at least some of the logs.  system.log gets hundreds of
>>> lines during boot.
>>
>> So? Logs are time stamped. And the time of the hang is known. What's your
>> point?
>
> Didn't you tell OP to look in Finder for logs modified at the time of 
> the hang?  "created around the time of the event"?

Absolutely. And nothing is stopping him from doing just that.

> (After he complained that the lines in some of the logs were not
> time-stamped)

In each of those cases, the log file itself has a creation date. So
that's not a problem.

> My point is that they could be modified later, i.e., during the reboot
> and thus Finder wouldn't help.

That's incorrect because the Finder search I told him to do looks at the
*creation* date of the log file, and macOS doesn't modify hang/crash
logs once they are created. Also, every message in the system log is
time stamped. 

It seems you are trying to manufacture a problem where none exists.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95557

On 10-12-2016 12:19, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> > Didn't you tell OP to look in Finder for logs modified at the time of
>> > the hang?  "created around the time of the event"?
> Absolutely. And nothing is stopping him from doing just that.
>
>> > (After he complained that the lines in some of the logs were not
>> > time-stamped)
> In each of those cases, the log file itself has a creation date. So
> that's not a problem.

Ah, if it was created at the crash, cool.  Most of the logs I've seen 
were created by the first message after a periodic cleanup and keep 
growing till the next cleanup.

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#95550

On 2016-10-12 05:27:15 +0000, Happy.Hobo said:

> On 10-11-2016 17:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
>> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>>> On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>>> 
>>> Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and
>>> especially during boot?
>> 
>> The hang happens while the computer is running.
> 
> But if it's hung, the only way to look at logs is kill power and 
> reboot, thus writing to at least some of the logs.  system.log gets 
> hundreds of lines during boot.

I can easily get the time *before* I boot, since I'm doing the booting 
and the screen continues to update while it hangs/freezes/locks/crashes.

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#95553

On 10-12-2016 01:24, gtr wrote:
> On 2016-10-12 05:27:15 +0000, Happy.Hobo said:
>
>> On 10-11-2016 17:49, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> Happy.Hobo <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 10-11-2016 13:18, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>> You tell me whether we can move on. The question of which logs were
>>>>> created around the time of the event still stands.
>>>>
>>>> Aren't most logs added to frequently when computer is running, and
>>>> especially during boot?
>>>
>>> The hang happens while the computer is running.
>>
>> But if it's hung, the only way to look at logs is kill power and
>> reboot, thus writing to at least some of the logs.  system.log gets
>> hundreds of lines during boot.
>
> I can easily get the time *before* I boot, since I'm doing the booting
> and the screen continues to update while it hangs/freezes/locks/crashes.

Yes, you can.  But if the answer is in some_xyz.log, and reboot write to 
that log, then Finder is not going to tell you _that_ log also was 
written to before your reboot.  If that log doesn't have internal 
timestamps, you need to get a clue which log to look in from a log that 
does have timestamps.

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#95555

Okay, got off easy yesterday with none.

Today I got bit at around 10:37 a.m.  This, followed by a clown-car of 
activity.  While it remained locked I fetched a USB keyboard which took 
a few minutes, plugged it in, found it too would not work. Then 
rebooted, remembered I was advised to try a nvram reset, so once up, I 
tried to restart and reboot anew.  Inexplicable problems with programs 
that wouldn't quit, had to be force-quit and then a beachball refusing 
activit of all kind it took another two minutes or more before I could 
reboot.  I don't know what effect that will have in my results.

The sys.log [below for ease of reading notes] has nothing at 10:37, but 
has plenty relating to GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent, and many more like it 
relating to GoogleSoftwareUpdate.

Little Snitch disallows any outgoing callas to Google Software Update 
and to GoogleSoftwareUpdateDaemon.  Which reminds me of a question.  
Why does seemingly 90% of my programs want to chat with 
google-analytics, and can't I refuse them all without issue?

Doesn't seem to be of much use in sys.log.

More later.

Oct 12 10:36:40 Ducks GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174]: 2016-10-12 
10:36:38.982 GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174/0xb09aa000] [lvl=2] 
-[KSMultiUpdateAction performAction] KSPromptAction had no updates to 
apply.
Oct 12 10:36:40 Ducks GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174]: 2016-10-12 
10:36:38.982 GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174/0xb09aa000] [lvl=1] 
-[KSUpdateEngine(KSActionProcessorDelegate) 
processor:finishedAction:errors:] KSUpdateEngine finished action 
(errors: 0): <KSPromptAction:0x4486a0
Oct 12 10:36:40 Ducks GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174]: 2016-10-12 
10:36:38.982 GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174/0xb09aa000] [lvl=2] 
-[KSUpdateEngine(PrivateMethods) updateFinish] KSUpdateEngine update 
processing complete.
Oct 12 10:36:40 Ducks GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174]: 2016-10-12 
10:36:40.007 GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174/0xb09aa000] [lvl=3] 
-[KSAgentUploader fetcher:failedWithError:] Failed to upload stats to 
<NSMutableURLRequest: 0x62ba50> { URL: 
https://tools.google.com/service/update2 } with error Error 
Domain=NSURLErrorDomain Code=-1004 "Could not connect to the server." 
UserInfo={NSErrorFailingURLStringKey=https://tools.google.com/service/update2, 
_kCFStreamErrorCodeKey=64, 
NSErrorFailingURLKey=https://tools.google.com/service/update2, 
NSLocalizedDescription=Could not connect to the server., 
_kCFStreamErrorDomainKey=1, NSUnderlyingError=0x463620 {Error 
Domain=kCFErrorDomainCFNetwork Code=-1004 "Could not connect to the 
server." UserInfo={_kCFStreamErrorCodeKey=64, 
NSErrorFailingURLStringKey=https://tools.google.com/service/update2, 
NSErrorFailingURLKey=https://tools.google.com/service/update2, 
NSLocalizedDescription=Could not connect to the server., 
_kCFStreamErrorDomainKey=1}}}
Oct 12 10:36:40 Ducks GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174]: 2016-10-12 
10:36:40.222 GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent[2174/0xb09aa000] [lvl=3] 
-[KSAgentApp uploadStats:] Failed to upload stats 
<KSStatsCollection:0x318b10 
path="/Users/gscot/Library/Google/GoogleSoftwareUpdate/Stats/Keystone.stats", 
count=6, stats={
Oct 12 10:36:40 Ducks GoogleSoftwareUpdateDaemon[2175]: 
-[KeystoneDaemon logServiceState] GoogleSoftwareUpdate daemon 
(1.2.1.310) vending:

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#95559

On 2016-10-12, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> Okay, got off easy yesterday with none.
>
> Today I got bit at around 10:37 a.m.  

It would be helpful to know:

What were you doing when you first noticed the problem?

What apps were you running at the time? 

How busy was the CPU?

Which apps were using the most CPU at the time?

You can find details about these in /Applications/Utilities/Activity
Monitor. If the hangs happen frequently, you can just leave it running
in preparation.

> This, followed by a clown-car of activity.

Do you mean that actions you took (clicks, typing) while the hang was
happening finally got processed in short succession once the hang was
over? That's what it sounds like, but it's hard to tell by your wording.

> While it remained locked I fetched a USB keyboard which took a few
> minutes, plugged it in, found it too would not work. Then rebooted,
> remembered I was advised to try a nvram reset, so once up, I tried to
> restart and reboot anew. 

So you rebooted *twice* after the initial hang?

> Inexplicable problems with programs that wouldn't quit, had to be
> force-quit and then a beachball refusing activit of all kind it took
> another two minutes or more before I could reboot.

Are you saying the above happened *after* you had rebooted once or
twice?

> The sys.log [below for ease of reading notes] has nothing at 10:37,
> but has plenty relating to GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent, and many more
> like it relating to GoogleSoftwareUpdate.

Some questions:

Which Google software packages do you have installed on this computer?

Which of those apps were running at the time of the hang?

> Little Snitch disallows any outgoing callas to Google Software Update
> and to GoogleSoftwareUpdateDaemon.  

That would mean each time GoogleSoftwareUpdate attempts to connect to
Google, the connection will sit and spin and eventually time out,
potentially causing problems with related Google apps. Have you
considered disabling (removing) GoogleSoftwareUpdate from the system?:

<https://raamdev.com/2008/howto-remove-google-software-update-on-mac-os-x/>

> Which reminds me of a question.  Why does seemingly 90% of my programs
> want to chat with google-analytics, and can't I refuse them all
> without issue?

Which programs, specifically?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95562

On 2016-10-13 00:11:57 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

> On 2016-10-12, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>> Okay, got off easy yesterday with none.
>> 
>> Today I got bit at around 10:37 a.m.
> 
> It would be helpful to know:
> 
> What were you doing when you first noticed the problem?

Actually doing?  Nothing.  A moment before I had been editing a post in 
Facebook.  Yesterday--again a few moments before, I had been writing a 
post in email.

> What apps were you running at the time?

On this occasions, Safari, mail, calendar, contacts, messages and 
DevonTHINK Pro office. These are almost always all operable, no change.

> How busy was the CPU?

Nothing doing.

> Which apps were using the most CPU at the time?

I can't imagine any were actually pumping as it were.

> You can find details about these in /Applications/Utilities/Activity
> Monitor. If the hangs happen frequently, you can just leave it running
> in preparation.

I have a hotkey to the program but also have a visual display at the 
top of the screen for CPU via iStat Menus.  So I'm fairly well assured 
it was dullsville.

>> This, followed by a clown-car of activity.
> 
> Do you mean that actions you took (clicks, typing) while the hang was
> happening finally got processed in short succession once the hang was
> over? That's what it sounds like, but it's hard to tell by your wording.

No, I mean that I waited a full minute and then had to lurch over the 
back of everything where the MacBook is at rebooted, then tried to 
issue the pram keys, failed, found (a novelty) that it went boot 
completely until I typed in a host of passwords for login and such), 
finally rebooted anew, this time with PRAM, then went hunting for info. 
I thought I had a drill prepped, but sorta stumbled through it.

>> While it remained locked I fetched a USB keyboard which took a few
>> minutes, plugged it in, found it too would not work. Then rebooted,
>> remembered I was advised to try a nvram reset, so once up, I tried to
>> restart and reboot anew.
> 
> So you rebooted *twice* after the initial hang?

Correct.

>> Inexplicable problems with programs that wouldn't quit, had to be
>> force-quit and then a beachball refusing activit of all kind it took
>> another two minutes or more before I could reboot.
> 
> Are you saying the above happened *after* you had rebooted once or
> twice?

It was part of the two-boot process.

>> The sys.log [below for ease of reading notes] has nothing at 10:37,
>> but has plenty relating to GoogleSoftwareUpdateAgent, and many more
>> like it relating to GoogleSoftwareUpdate.
> 
> Some questions:
> 
> Which Google software packages do you have installed on this computer?

Tough to know what a google software package really is since they seem 
to have a lot of sprockets under the hood, but I have Chrome--never 
used, Google Earth--never used, Picasa--likewise.  Those are the only 
ones I know of by name.

> Which of those apps were running at the time of the hang?

None, nor have the in likely 4 months.

>> Little Snitch disallows any outgoing callas to Google Software Update
>> and to GoogleSoftwareUpdateDaemon.
> 
> That would mean each time GoogleSoftwareUpdate attempts to connect to
> Google, the connection will sit and spin and eventually time out,
> potentially causing problems with related Google apps. Have you
> considered disabling (removing) GoogleSoftwareUpdate from the system?:
> 
> <https://raamdev.com/2008/howto-remove-google-software-update-on-mac-os-x/>

I'll do that posthaste.

>> Which reminds me of a question.  Why does seemingly 90% of my programs
>> want to chat with google-analytics, and can't I refuse them all
>> without issue?
> 
> Which programs, specifically?

Beamer
ClipGrab
Corel Aftershot
djay
FotoMagico 4
GraphicConverter 10
iMazing
iMovie
iShowU HD
MOvist
PandoraMan
SandboxCleaner
System Preferences
Tonality CK
VideoDrive
XLD

These are the ones initiate TCP connectsion or 443/80 connections (or 
other), www.google.com, google-analytics.com, 
safebrowsing-cache.google.com, others that refere to 
*analytics*google*... and others.

Thanks for the curiousity!

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#95567

On 2016-10-13, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> On 2016-10-13 00:11:57 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>
>> On 2016-10-12, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
>>> Okay, got off easy yesterday with none.
>>> 
>>> Today I got bit at around 10:37 a.m.
>> 
>> It would be helpful to know:
>> 
>> What were you doing when you first noticed the problem?
>
> Actually doing?  Nothing.  A moment before I had been editing a post in 
> Facebook.  Yesterday--again a few moments before, I had been writing a 
> post in email.

Ok, so you haven't determined any correlation to things you are actively
doing with the machine. That's a good data point.

>> What apps were you running at the time?
>
> On this occasions, Safari, mail, calendar, contacts, messages and 
> DevonTHINK Pro office. These are almost always all operable, no change.
>
>> How busy was the CPU?
>
> Nothing doing.
>
>> Which apps were using the most CPU at the time?
>
> I can't imagine any were actually pumping as it were.

Next time, actually take a look. Keep Activity Monitor running
indefinitely for now, until you are able to see what's going on under
the hood during a hang.

View the CPU tab in Activity Monitor sorted by the CPU column, and make
note of the top 10 processes when the hang occurs. Alternatively, run
this command in a terminal window:

top -u

Also if you can, look at the Memory tab sorted by the Memory column to
see which apps are using the most memory.

It would also be a good idea to monitor the system log while a hang
happens. You can keep a Terminal window open all the time running this
command for that:

sudo tail -f /var/log/system.log

The only way you are going to get a handle on what is going on is by
actively watching the system during a hang.

>> You can find details about these in /Applications/Utilities/Activity
>> Monitor. If the hangs happen frequently, you can just leave it running
>> in preparation.
>
> I have a hotkey to the program but also have a visual display at the 
> top of the screen for CPU via iStat Menus.  So I'm fairly well assured 
> it was dullsville.

Keep Activity Monitor open and running all the time so that you can
easily see what's going on at the moment the system starts hanging.

>> Some questions:
>> 
>> Which Google software packages do you have installed on this computer?
>
> Tough to know what a google software package really is since they seem 
> to have a lot of sprockets under the hood, but I have Chrome--never 
> used, Google Earth--never used, Picasa--likewise.  Those are the only 
> ones I know of by name.
>
>> Which of those apps were running at the time of the hang?
>
> None, nor have the in likely 4 months.

Since you never used them, I'd remove all of them and see if the issue
persists.

>>> Which reminds me of a question.  Why does seemingly 90% of my programs
>>> want to chat with google-analytics, and can't I refuse them all
>>> without issue?
>> 
>> Which programs, specifically?
>
> Beamer
> ClipGrab
> Corel Aftershot
> djay
> FotoMagico 4
> GraphicConverter 10
> iMazing
> iMovie
> iShowU HD
> MOvist
> PandoraMan
> SandboxCleaner
> System Preferences
> Tonality CK
> VideoDrive
> XLD
>
> These are the ones initiate TCP connectsion or 443/80 connections (or 
> other), www.google.com, google-analytics.com, 
> safebrowsing-cache.google.com, others that refere to 
> *analytics*google*... and others.

That doesn't seem right. I'm running the latest version of Little Snitch
on a Mac mini server running El Capitan, and I see *zero* rules for
System Preferences. It's never tried to connect to anything remote. What
files do you have in /Library/PreferencePanes and
~/Library/PreferencePanes?

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#95574

On 2016-10-13 15:44:33 +0000, Jolly Roger said:

>>> Which apps were using the most CPU at the time?
>> 
>> I can't imagine any were actually pumping as it were.
> 
> Next time, actually take a look. Keep Activity Monitor running
> indefinitely for now, until you are able to see what's going on under
> the hood during a hang.
> 
> View the CPU tab in Activity Monitor sorted by the CPU column, and make
> note of the top 10 processes when the hang occurs. Alternatively, run
> this command in a terminal window:
> 
> top -u

I've opened it and put it in the bottom right part of my display.  I 
hope I can manage to keep it on top through the next crash.

> Also if you can, look at the Memory tab sorted by the Memory column to
> see which apps are using the most memory.
> 
> It would also be a good idea to monitor the system log while a hang
> happens. You can keep a Terminal window open all the time running this
> command for that:
> 
> sudo tail -f /var/log/system.log

Okay, now that's in the bottom part of my display.  I'm glad I have a 
large enough screen that I can still work in the corner of it.

> The only way you are going to get a handle on what is going on is by
> actively watching the system during a hang.
> 
>>> You can find details about these in /Applications/Utilities/Activity
>>> Monitor. If the hangs happen frequently, you can just leave it running
>>> in preparation.
>> 
>> I have a hotkey to the program but also have a visual display at the
>> top of the screen for CPU via iStat Menus.  So I'm fairly well assured
>> it was dullsville.
> 
> Keep Activity Monitor open and running all the time so that you can
> easily see what's going on at the moment the system starts hanging.
> 
>>> Some questions:
>>> 
>>> Which Google software packages do you have installed on this computer?
>> 
>> Tough to know what a google software package really is since they seem
>> to have a lot of sprockets under the hood, but I have Chrome--never
>> used, Google Earth--never used, Picasa--likewise.  Those are the only
>> ones I know of by name.
>> 
>>> Which of those apps were running at the time of the hang?
>> 
>> None, nor have the in likely 4 months.
> 
> Since you never used them, I'd remove all of them and see if the issue
> persists.

Under the circumstances indicated above, shouldn't I be living my life 
as I normally do, so I can trap which task/activity is causing 
problems?  In any case, for the short term, I've ditched Calendar, 
Address Book and Messages as likely unnecessary.  I forgot about iTunes 
which was probably operable at the time, also quit unless being used.

>>>> Which reminds me of a question.  Why does seemingly 90% of my programs
>>>> want to chat with google-analytics, and can't I refuse them all
>>>> without issue?
>>> 
>>> Which programs, specifically?
>> 
>> Beamer
>> ClipGrab
>> Corel Aftershot
>> djay
>> FotoMagico 4
>> GraphicConverter 10
>> iMazing
>> iMovie
>> iShowU HD
>> MOvist
>> PandoraMan
>> SandboxCleaner
>> System Preferences
>> Tonality CK
>> VideoDrive
>> XLD
>> 
>> These are the ones initiate TCP connectsion or 443/80 connections (or
>> other), www.google.com, google-analytics.com,
>> safebrowsing-cache.google.com, others that refere to
>> *analytics*google*... and others.
> 
> That doesn't seem right. I'm running the latest version of Little Snitch
> on a Mac mini server running El Capitan, and I see *zero* rules for
> System Preferences. It's never tried to connect to anything remote. What
> files do you have in /Library/PreferencePanes and
> ~/Library/PreferencePanes?

The snitch display reads:
"Allow outgoing connections via com.apple.WebKit.Networking to part 443 
(https) of accounts.google.com"

System:

Diablotin.prefPane
FinderPop.prefPane
Flash Player.prefPane
Flip4Mac WMV.prefPane
JavaControlPanel.prefPane
Logitech Control Center.prefPane
Macaroni.prefPane
OpenMenuXPref.prefPane
Perian.prefPane
RDUSB0127Pref.prefPane (I think this one is associated with my Roland GR-55
	Guitar synth but can't substantiate it)
TechTool Protection.prefPane

Local:

Diablotin.prefPane
RCDefaultApp.prefPane

A visual of additional items in system preferences:

	http://grab.by/TdRq

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#95512

In article <2016100916560594420-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:

> On 2016-10-09 23:43:04 +0000, Michael Vilain said:
> 
> > The drive connect/disconnect stuff tells me it might be hardware
> > related.  Hangs *can* produce log files.  Anything in /Library/Logs or
> > ~/Library/Logs?  Hang logs usually end with .hang.
> 
> Yikes, those are big folders.  Most of which are sorted by the names of 
> applications.  Any way to narrow my search?

Look for date/time stamps that are near when things went splat.
(Assuming, of course, that you can remember what time it happened close 
enough to be useful...)

-- 
Brought to you by the letter K and the number .357
Security provided by Horace S. & Dan W.

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#95517

On 2016-10-10 03:46:14 +0000, Don Bruder said:

> In article <2016100916560594420-xxx@yyyzzz>, gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> wrote:
> 
>> On 2016-10-09 23:43:04 +0000, Michael Vilain said:
>> 
>>> The drive connect/disconnect stuff tells me it might be hardware
>>> related.  Hangs *can* produce log files.  Anything in /Library/Logs or
>>> ~/Library/Logs?  Hang logs usually end with .hang.
>> 
>> Yikes, those are big folders.  Most of which are sorted by the names of
>> applications.  Any way to narrow my search?
> 
> Look for date/time stamps that are near when things went splat.
> (Assuming, of course, that you can remember what time it happened close
> enough to be useful...)

I've now had three splats, one two days ago, two yesterday, and one 
this morning.  This morning I called Apple and started the whole 
analysis process. She said she had encountered a few of these 
situations and they were remedied with a SMC and Pram reset (now nvram 
reset).  I had already done the SMC, and I await the next crash.

I was doing no saving or i/o with the disc for a long time before all crashes.

One of the routines I did with Apple was to do a Capture_Data routine 
with an engineer, and they say they will look at them and should be 
able to see the last three crash/freezes.  We'll see.

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