Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar?

From	Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca>
Subject	Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar?
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system
References	(3 earlier) <nv559e$rgt$2@dont-email.me> <7ICdnfblzNlfvIvFnZ2dnUU7-IPNnZ2d@giganews.com> <nv7qab$ngq$2@dont-email.me> <FPqdnYw105Y9IYrFnZ2dnUU7-KPNnZ2d@giganews.com> <nvafo4$o4i$3@dont-email.me>
Date	2016-11-01 16:44 -0400
Message-ID	<prqdnfRTMapbY4XFnZ2dnUU7-UfNnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

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On 2016-11-01 12:26, Doc O'Leary wrote:
> For your reference, records indicate that
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>> I used to program real time systems and that included a lot of serial
>> data transfer in real time to specified performance requirements
>> including response from the controller.  Latency?  Microseconds from
>> receipt of each command.  Non issue.
>
> You can claim that all you want, but I’m not seeing any existing
> devices that back up that type of interaction.  All I see are a lot
> of devices that push data in one direction.  All I’m asking is for

Bluetooth and USB are equal bandwidth in each direction though not all 
implementations use such.

[1] A simple example is my disk toasters that hold two drives each and 
communicate via USB 3.  I can read from one while writing to the other 
on the order of 100 MB/s - with encryption/decryption piled on.  So 
transport is not an issue at all.

The Bluetooth case is narrower - indeed edge case at 25 Mb/s - but with 
basic compression it becomes quite feasible with room to spare.

That aside, I think someone (nospam) mentioned that the Touch Bar uses 
its own ARM processor.  So in that case a lot of the touch related 
processing would be done there, not in the Mac.  Whatever latencies 
there may be due to interface (and I'm not agreeing there would be) 
would be eliminated there.

> you to point to something that can be bought today that operates with
> a low latency two-way communication that would be necessary for a
> device like the Touch Bar.

Latency is defined by the device, not the transport.  In the Touch Bar, 
for example, there is an ARM processor.  That's not going to contribute 
to latency of any user observable kind - quite the opposite.

>
>> Indeed, one real time USB application has been on Macs for a very long
>> time: Bluetooth.  It is linked to the CPU via USB and does
>> bi-directional real time work without issue at high bandwidths and
>> negligible latency.
>
> Again, I don’t see any such things on the market.  Point me to any
> example of something I can use that will demonstrate real-time
> feedback between touch devices over Bluetooth.

Nothing comes to mind.  But the device, by its nature, can handle it 
quite well.  Moreso if there is pre-processing on the device end (ARM).

>
>>>> See above.  Using external HD's is one example.
>>>
>>> Nope.  Not even close.
>>
>> Sure it is.  That's a busy interface with a lot of back and forth for
>> each block written or read.  Do it bi directionally and you have
>> intermixed data and commands flying in each direction.  Piece of cake.
>
> Far from parity.  Your hand waving is too much.  Either point to
> real world examples or we’re done here.

See above[1].

>
>> Time will tell.
>
> Time has told me first.  We’re close like that.  You’re welcome to
> wait until it gets around to telling you personally.

Bombast.  The above is actually quite simple stuff.  But then I've 
implemented such for various real time systems where it counted and had 
to perform to spec.  Often with little wiggle room.  These days there's 
plenty of wiggle room.

-- 
She hummed to herself because she was an unrivaled botcher of lyrics.
   -Nick (Gone Girl), Gillian Flynn.

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New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-28 20:20 -0400
  Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-10-29 15:10 +0000
    Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-29 13:34 -0400
      Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-29 13:42 -0400
      Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-10-29 14:28 -0400
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-29 14:44 -0400
          Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-10-29 15:12 -0400
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-29 14:50 -0400
          Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2016-11-06 07:29 +0000
            Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2016-11-07 09:14 +1300
            Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-07 02:30 +0000
              Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2016-11-07 10:11 +0000
      Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-10-30 15:57 +0000
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 12:37 -0400
          Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2016-10-31 08:50 +1300
            Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 17:04 -0400
          Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-10-31 16:08 +0000
            Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lloyd Parsons <email@domain.com> - 2016-10-31 11:39 -0500
            Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-31 17:50 -0400
              Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-11-01 16:26 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 16:44 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-01 17:26 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-11-02 15:47 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-02 19:15 -0400
  Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-10-29 09:55 -0600
    Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-29 12:00 -0400
      Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-29 13:03 -0400
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-29 13:06 -0400
      Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-29 15:17 -0500
      Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-10-29 17:12 -0600
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 10:40 -0400
          Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2016-10-30 11:59 -0400
            Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 12:39 -0400
              Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-30 20:15 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 17:19 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-30 21:42 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 17:54 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-30 22:03 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 18:27 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-30 22:41 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-30 18:44 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-30 23:13 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-30 18:08 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-10-30 20:46 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-31 01:57 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-31 17:48 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-31 18:17 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-31 20:01 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-01 00:19 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 16:33 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-01 17:26 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 17:26 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-01 17:28 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-01 21:59 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 18:11 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-02 02:49 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-02 18:53 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-03 00:45 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-03 01:38 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-03 16:48 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-04 18:04 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-05 10:43 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-05 15:07 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-05 11:24 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-05 15:30 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-05 11:37 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-06 07:09 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-03 00:25 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-05 13:48 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-05 14:16 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-05 18:40 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-05 15:59 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-05 20:26 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-05 17:13 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-06 07:13 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-31 23:45 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-01 04:10 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 16:37 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-01 05:31 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 16:37 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-01 17:26 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-01 00:45 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 16:36 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-01 17:26 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-01 18:06 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-02 10:10 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-02 18:21 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-02 15:36 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2016-11-03 14:17 +1300
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-03 01:35 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-02 18:59 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-02 16:07 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-02 19:26 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-03 00:46 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-03 16:45 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-04 00:01 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-03 20:58 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-04 01:12 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-05 11:43 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-11-02 02:46 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-02 18:52 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-03 00:25 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-11-03 17:04 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-11-03 21:18 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-11-04 06:42 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-10-30 20:43 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-31 00:48 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2016-10-30 20:40 -0400
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-31 00:46 +0000
                Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2016-10-31 01:55 +0000
              Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2016-10-30 17:37 -0400
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2016-10-30 20:08 +0000
          Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-10-30 15:03 -0600
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2016-10-31 16:24 -0600
    Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2016-10-29 13:03 -0400
    Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2016-10-30 08:49 +1300
    Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-29 15:11 -0500
      Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2016-10-29 16:28 -0400
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2016-10-29 13:54 -0700
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? "Happy.Hobo" <Happy.Hobo@Spam.Invalid> - 2016-10-29 23:40 -0500
        Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2016-10-30 09:29 -0400
    Re: New Mac Keyboard with Touchbar? Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2015usenet1.subsume.com> - 2016-10-30 15:12 +0000

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