Re: Improved memory management? (10.11)

Subject	Re: Improved memory management? (10.11)
Newsgroups	comp.sys.mac.system
References	(15 earlier) <d803nnFeiimU18@mid.individual.net> <-dydnR2SCtiTcIfLnZ2dnUU7-S2dnZ2d@giganews.com> <slrnn1m9rb.f9b.g.kreme@amelia.local> <VKudnfhXRPMCKYbLnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com> <slrnn1nl1v.hr4.g.kreme@amelia.local>
From	Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca>
Date	2015-10-12 12:23 -0400
Message-ID	<0bednX359dPtQ4bLnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com> (permalink)

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On 2015-10-12 11:37, Lewis wrote:
> In message <VKudnfhXRPMCKYbLnZ2dnUU7-VOdnZ2d@giganews.com>
>    Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015-10-11 23:20, Lewis wrote:
>>> In message <-dydnR2SCtiTcIfLnZ2dnUU7-S2dnZ2d@giganews.com>
>>>     Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 2015-10-11 17:47, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>> On 2015-10-11, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2015-10-11 17:01, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2015-10-11, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2015-10-11 16:21, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2015-10-11, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2015-10-11 15:51, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 2015-10-11, Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. As I've mentioned in the past I've operated OS X with both swap and
>>>>>>>>>>>> compression disabled to no ill effect.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What effects were there?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The system worked fine, which is an acceptable effect.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Was the system working fine before you disabled swap and compression?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was under the impression there was a measurable improvement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's an observable improvement: no swaps occur.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, that's an effect with no apparent improvement in processing speed or
>>>>> efficiency.
>>>
>>>> A swap on my system is a hard disk write.  That takes time.  Whereas not
>>>> swapping takes 0 time.  Measurable?  I suppose it can be done but I
>>>> don't have the hooks into the OS to do it.
>>>
>>> Translation: I have no clue what I am talking about. None. At all.
>
>> Lewis grandstanding.  As subtle as a bull in china shop.  As always.
>
>> Do disk writes take time?  Sure do.  Prove otherwise or pack up.
>
> In fact, swap writes do NOT take time because they are done when nothing
> else is being done; assuming that the system is running well and has
> plenty of RAM, of course.

I don't disagree with that.  But I don't need to have it at all for my 
configuration and use.  Even if I load up the ram disk (10 GB configed, 
but rarely used) and a VM and Photoshop and Google Earth and Office and 
so on there is so much free memory that swap is NOT NEEDED.  There is 
oodles of room left.  If they day comes that I get issues when running 
such, then I just swap out the 8 GB bank for a 16 GB bank and I'll be at 
a sloppy fat 32 GB.



> This laptop has 16GB of RAM, less than 6GB is Used, 1.23GB is Cached
> Files, and there is 2.0GB of Swap. A total of 2.4GB is used for App
> Memory, 2.4GB for Wired, and 980MB compressed.

>
> You would be in a tizzy over the "massive" amount of swap used, but the
> fact is my machine is running very lean with plenty of available memory
> and the Memory Pressure is a thin green line because the only things
> running right now are about 10 apps, none of which are doing much of
> anything.

I can produce similar stats for my system (24 GB) and similar number of 
apps loaded (or more actually, but not enough to matter).

Fact remains: swap is not needed because there's far more memory than 
needed to run the OS, the apps and their required data space.

>
<s>

>
>>>> The real issue of course is why did swapping begin?  It began when
>>>> memory was tiny compared to the programs and their memory allocations,
>>>> plus of course VM.
>>>
>>> You have no clue what you're talking about.
>
>> Prove the above wrong.  Mem swapping began in the late 50's because
>> memory on a computer was smaller than the register set of one core on an
>> intel processor today.  (Not that the drum memory was all that large
>> either...)
>
> The VM system in current OS X is nothing like that in anything but name.

The principle remains and the need dwindles for the reasons stated. 
Just like a lot of things have disappeared on computers over time as 
their need has been supplanted by improvements elsewhere.

>
>> I know you have trouble with facts, but those are the facts.
>
> You wouldn't know a fact if it latched onto you ball sack.

I know the facts on my computer.  Swap is not needed at all.  Proven.

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Thread

Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-10 09:42 -0400
  Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-10 20:26 +0000
    Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-11 02:13 +0000
      Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 10:17 -0400
        Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-11 14:44 -0400
          Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 14:54 -0400
            Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-11 19:51 +0000
              Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 16:11 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-11 20:21 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 16:23 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-11 21:01 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 17:13 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-11 21:47 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 19:13 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-10-11 20:44 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 03:23 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-10-12 10:02 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:40 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:28 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 09:05 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:51 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:45 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-10-12 15:07 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 15:39 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-12 14:34 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-12 02:38 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 09:10 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:51 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:49 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-12 16:20 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:56 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 22:49 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-13 19:20 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-14 08:01 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-14 19:02 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 03:20 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 09:24 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-10-12 14:40 +0100
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:37 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:23 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 22:39 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2015-10-12 20:15 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> - 2015-10-13 00:21 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-13 20:26 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-14 08:04 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-14 19:06 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-13 19:10 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-14 07:48 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-14 18:54 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-14 23:15 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-14 20:55 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-12 14:21 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-11 18:58 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 19:22 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 03:24 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 09:27 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:45 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:36 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-10-12 16:43 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:58 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 22:45 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-13 19:19 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-14 07:59 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-14 19:01 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-15 00:17 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-15 13:33 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-12 19:26 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-13 20:17 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-14 17:57 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-14 18:13 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-14 19:09 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 03:18 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 09:17 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:25 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:10 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-11 21:11 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-11 18:55 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 19:21 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2015-10-12 14:23 -0400
        Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-11 21:10 +0000
          Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 17:34 -0400
            Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) John Somerset <somerset@nospam.com> - 2015-10-11 18:17 -0400
              Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 19:15 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) John Somerset <somerset@nospam.com> - 2015-10-11 19:58 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 08:58 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 03:16 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 09:15 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-10-12 14:17 +0100
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:20 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:05 -0400
            Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 03:15 +0000
              Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 09:13 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 15:18 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-12 12:04 -0400
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-10-12 22:33 +0000
                Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-13 18:59 -0400
  Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) John Somerset <somerset@nospam.com> - 2015-10-11 18:43 -0400
    Re: Improved memory management? (10.11) Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchvideotron.ca> - 2015-10-11 19:16 -0400

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