Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #32424 > unrolled thread

Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

Started by	ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
First post	2015-10-07 12:43 -0500
Last post	2015-10-07 16:38 -0700
Articles	20 on this page of 129 — 14 participants

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#32472

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 16:23 -0700
Message-ID	<D23AF78D.5F6B0%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32459

On 10/7/15, 1:28 PM, in article d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> In article <d7lc1kFpka6U1@mid.individual.net>,
>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-07, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/7/15, 12:40 PM, in article d7laq9FogllU10@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>>>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>> To be fair, the repeat speed setting does make sense with special
>>>>> characters enabled - it controls how long you have to press the key to
>>>>> see the special characters menu.
>>>> 
>>>> Right... but then it is labeled incorrectly and the repeat rate makes no
>>>> sense.
>>> 
>>> That's why the setting is a hidden preference. Seems like we are talking
>>> in circles. It's an advanced preference that Apple decided not to expose
>>> to GUI users.
>> 
>> He's talking about the labeling in the non-hidden Keyboard Preferences.
>> The language there still assumes that auto-repeat exists.
> 
> I realize that, and again, that's why this is a hidden preference. If
> Apple chose to expose it to users, they'd make corresponding changes to
> the preferences panel. Hidden settings are there for power users who
> know what they are doing and aren't intended for the majority who only
> use the GUI. 

I realize that - just wish they had more "advanced" settings and not have
people use the CLI except in very rare cases (though, frankly, I have never
had a desire or need to change this setting).

Then again, for those who do not want to go to the command line but still
want to have such settings available in an "advanced" place, there are
program such as TinkerTool. I have it and just checked - it has the setting
there.

<http://www.bresink.com/osx/0TinkerTool/screenshots.html>

Top item in the "General Settings". I thought I had seen it somewhere. Now
one less reason to assume I am going insane. :)

They say there you have to log out and back in to have the settings take
effect, but I just tested and quitting / relaunching the apps works. The
need to do that, though, is likely why Apple has the feature hidden. That is
not a huge issue but not idea.

>> But since some applications still implement auto-repeat rather than
>> showing special characters, the preference is still appropriate for them.
> 
> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.

Agreed. Esp. with the need to quit and re-launch programs I can see plenty
of room for confusion.

-- 
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#32477

From	Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu>
Date	2015-10-07 19:52 -0400
Message-ID	<barmar-A80271.19521107102015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu>
In reply to	#32459

In article <d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > In article <d7lc1kFpka6U1@mid.individual.net>,
> >  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2015-10-07, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> >> > On 10/7/15, 12:40 PM, in article d7laq9FogllU10@mid.individual.net, 
> >> > "Jolly
> >> > Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> >> >> To be fair, the repeat speed setting does make sense with special
> >> >> characters enabled - it controls how long you have to press the key to
> >> >> see the special characters menu.
> >> >
> >> > Right... but then it is labeled incorrectly and the repeat rate makes no
> >> > sense.
> >> 
> >> That's why the setting is a hidden preference. Seems like we are talking
> >> in circles. It's an advanced preference that Apple decided not to expose
> >> to GUI users.
> >
> > He's talking about the labeling in the non-hidden Keyboard Preferences. 
> > The language there still assumes that auto-repeat exists.
> 
> I realize that, and again, that's why this is a hidden preference. If
> Apple chose to expose it to users, they'd make corresponding changes to
> the preferences panel. Hidden settings are there for power users who
> know what they are doing and aren't intended for the majority who only
> use the GUI. 

The hidden preference is the ability to switch between auto-repeat and 
the special character menu.

But the visible preference is the delay before this happens.

> 
> > But since some applications still implement auto-repeat rather than 
> > showing special characters, the preference is still appropriate for them.
> 
> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.

So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the 
special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#32479

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-08 00:15 +0000
Message-ID	<d7lqsiFt3hcU2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#32477

On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> In article <d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.
>
> So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the 
> special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?

Yeah, I suppose you're right. That could be clearer.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#32488

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 18:23 -0700
Message-ID	<D23B13AF.5F70B%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32479

On 10/7/15, 5:15 PM, in article d7lqsiFt3hcU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> In article <d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.
>> 
>> So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the
>> special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?
> 
> Yeah, I suppose you're right. That could be clearer.

OK, I realize Apple does not likely read this forum and make decisions based
on it, but what would better wording be?


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32512

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-08 17:17 +0000
Message-ID	<d7nmpaFct0iU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#32488

On 2015-10-08, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/7/15, 5:15 PM, in article d7lqsiFt3hcU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>> In article <d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.
>>> 
>>> So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the
>>> special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?
>> 
>> Yeah, I suppose you're right. That could be clearer.
>
> OK, I realize Apple does not likely read this forum and make decisions based
> on it, but what would better wording be?

Key Repeat / **** Delay (where **** is the official name of the special
character pop-up menu feature) would do, I think.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#32514

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 10:28 -0700
Message-ID	<D23BF5E0.5F81A%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32512

On 10/8/15, 10:17 AM, in article d7nmpaFct0iU1@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-08, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 10/7/15, 5:15 PM, in article d7lqsiFt3hcU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>>> In article <d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.
>>>> 
>>>> So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the
>>>> special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?
>>> 
>>> Yeah, I suppose you're right. That could be clearer.
>> 
>> OK, I realize Apple does not likely read this forum and make decisions based
>> on it, but what would better wording be?
> 
> Key Repeat / **** Delay (where **** is the official name of the special
> character pop-up menu feature) would do, I think.

Key Repeat / Accented or Alternate Version Delay.

A but cumbersome, but it would work.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
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* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
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* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32515

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-08 17:34 +0000
Message-ID	<d7nnosFct0iU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#32514

On 2015-10-08, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> On 10/8/15, 10:17 AM, in article d7nmpaFct0iU1@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-10-08, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/7/15, 5:15 PM, in article d7lqsiFt3hcU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>>>> In article <d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the
>>>>> special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah, I suppose you're right. That could be clearer.
>>> 
>>> OK, I realize Apple does not likely read this forum and make decisions based
>>> on it, but what would better wording be?
>> 
>> Key Repeat / **** Delay (where **** is the official name of the special
>> character pop-up menu feature) would do, I think.
>
> Key Repeat / Accented or Alternate Version Delay.

The actual official name is for Apple to decide, whenever they get
around to exposing it to all (novice) users.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#32522

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-08 11:25 -0700
Message-ID	<D23C0314.5F852%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32515

On 10/8/15, 10:34 AM, in article d7nnosFct0iU8@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-10-08, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>> On 10/8/15, 10:17 AM, in article d7nmpaFct0iU1@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-08, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/7/15, 5:15 PM, in article d7lqsiFt3hcU2@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>>>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2015-10-07, Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <d7ldj2Fq0orU1@mid.individual.net>,
>>>>>>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the
>>>>>> special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah, I suppose you're right. That could be clearer.
>>>> 
>>>> OK, I realize Apple does not likely read this forum and make decisions
>>>> based
>>>> on it, but what would better wording be?
>>> 
>>> Key Repeat / **** Delay (where **** is the official name of the special
>>> character pop-up menu feature) would do, I think.
>> 
>> Key Repeat / Accented or Alternate Version Delay.
> 
> The actual official name is for Apple to decide, whenever they get
> around to exposing it to all (novice) users.

The checkbox we are talking about is exposed to all users.

System Preferences > Keyboard

Main tab. Currently the option is "Delay Until Repeat". But it is not just
about repeat any more... so "should" be: Delay Until Repeat or Accented /
Alternative Version Shown

That is a bit cumbersome though.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32485

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 17:45 -0700
Message-ID	<D23B0ABF.5F703%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32477

On 10/7/15, 4:52 PM, in article
barmar-A80271.19521107102015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu, "Barry Margolin"
<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

>> I realize that, and again, that's why this is a hidden preference. If
>> Apple chose to expose it to users, they'd make corresponding changes to
>> the preferences panel. Hidden settings are there for power users who
>> know what they are doing and aren't intended for the majority who only
>> use the GUI. 
> 
> The hidden preference is the ability to switch between auto-repeat and
> the special character menu.
> 
> But the visible preference is the delay before this happens.
> 
>> 
>>> But since some applications still implement auto-repeat rather than
>>> showing special characters, the preference is still appropriate for them.
>> 
>> Hopefully the idea is to confuse novice users as little as possible.
> 
> So you don't think that it's confusing that the delay until showing the
> special character menu says that it's the delay until auto-repeat?

That is what I was noting before... it is clearly the same setting in the
background (delay until you do something special) and Apple never updated
the wording (not sure what wording I would even suggest!).


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32469

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 16:04 -0700
Message-ID	<D23AF316.5F6A7%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32456

On 10/7/15, 1:18 PM, in article
barmar-F23F25.16183807102015@88-209-239-213.giganet.hu, "Barry Margolin"
<barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> In article <d7lc1kFpka6U1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 2015-10-07, Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/7/15, 12:40 PM, in article d7laq9FogllU10@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
>>> Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>> To be fair, the repeat speed setting does make sense with special
>>>> characters enabled - it controls how long you have to press the key to
>>>> see the special characters menu.
>>> 
>>> Right... but then it is labeled incorrectly and the repeat rate makes no
>>> sense.
>> 
>> That's why the setting is a hidden preference. Seems like we are talking
>> in circles. It's an advanced preference that Apple decided not to expose
>> to GUI users.
> 
> He's talking about the labeling in the non-hidden Keyboard Preferences.
> The language there still assumes that auto-repeat exists.
> 
> But since some applications still implement auto-repeat rather than
> showing special characters, the preference is still appropriate for them.

Makes sense but I think the labeling should be more clear and the overall
setting for turning the "special characters" on or off should also not be
hidden.

Overall I think Apple hide too many settings. They could have "Advanced"
buttons which most would ignore. Also they tie settings together in ways I
do not like. I want to have lots of recent files remembered, fewer
applications, and even fewer servers. OS X ties these all to one setting.

And if you want to HIDE your recently used files from the Dock menu there is
no easy way.

Do not get me wrong: I am happy with my Mac and have had a number of them
and my next computer is almost sure to be a Mac. Apple offers me the best
quality for the lowest price and customer server second to none. But does
not mean there are things about their products that irk me. :)

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32471

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 16:12 -0700
Message-ID	<D23AF4E2.5F6AB%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32453

On 10/7/15, 1:01 PM, in article d7lc1kFpka6U1@mid.individual.net, "Jolly
Roger" <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

...
>>> To be fair, the repeat speed setting does make sense with special
>>> characters enabled - it controls how long you have to press the key to
>>> see the special characters menu.
>> 
>> Right... but then it is labeled incorrectly and the repeat rate makes no
>> sense.
> 
> That's why the setting is a hidden preference.

I meant the preferences you can see. It has been noted though that some keys
do still repeat, such as brightness and volume. Still, seems like they could
do the whole thing better. Few keys are effected by that setting the way the
setting is labeled.

> Seems like we are talking in circles. It's an advanced preference that Apple
> decided not to expose to GUI users.

Overall I think Apple does this too much. I wish they had some "advanced"
settings. Not looking for the insanity you see on KDE or VLC or the like
where there are so many settings you cannot find what you want anyway, but
more "advanced" areas where you did not need to go to the command line to
set such things.

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32452

From	ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
Date	2015-10-07 15:01 -0500
Message-ID	<7LydnSqa5I9h5IjLnZ2dnUU7-R2dnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to	#32447

...
> > Overall the feature seems half-baked. The options in the keyboard
> > preferences are wonky and incomplete, and needing to relaunch apps seems
> > poorly done.

> It's a hidden setting for a reason, sure. : )

And it has been thers since 2011 (Lion)? :/


> > Not a big deal given how rarely you would change it, but the idea of having
> > SOME setting in the preferences panel that do not even make sense unless you
> > change a setting in the command line is weird.

> To be fair, the repeat speed setting does make sense with special
> characters enabled - it controls how long you have to press the key to
> see the special characters menu.

From what I read online, Apple is trying to make it like iOS. :/
-- 
Quote of the Week: "It is said that the lonely eagle flies to the 
mountain peaks while the lowly ant crawls the ground, but cannot the 
soul of the ant soar as high as the eagle?" --unknown
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#32454

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-07 20:04 +0000
Message-ID	<d7lc6sFpka6U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#32452

On 2015-10-07, Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
> ...
>> > Overall the feature seems half-baked. The options in the keyboard
>> > preferences are wonky and incomplete, and needing to relaunch apps seems
>> > poorly done.
>
>> It's a hidden setting for a reason, sure. : )
>
> And it has been thers since 2011 (Lion)? :/

Lots of hidden preferences have been there since Lion - and lots for
even longer. So what?

>> > Not a big deal given how rarely you would change it, but the idea of having
>> > SOME setting in the preferences panel that do not even make sense unless you
>> > change a setting in the command line is weird.
>
>> To be fair, the repeat speed setting does make sense with special
>> characters enabled - it controls how long you have to press the key to
>> see the special characters menu.
>
> From what I read online, Apple is trying to make it like iOS. :/

They and you are full of shit. Apple is merging features from OS X to
iOS and also features from iOS into OS X, and that's mostly a good
thing.  Without it we wouldn't have great features like Continuity,
Hand-off, and so on.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
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JR

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#32481

From	JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>
Date	2015-10-07 20:31 -0400
Message-ID	<5615b942$0$19847$c3e8da3$3a1a2348@news.astraweb.com>
In reply to	#32440

On 2015-10-07 14:59, Jolly Roger wrote:

> Yep, I just noticed you have to restart applications for them to pick up
> the change.

One would think that key repeat would be a very low level, keyboard
driver feature, and a change behaviour at the driver level would kick in
for all apps.

I guess when a GUI app sets up a connection to accept keyboard events,
it reads configs and sets up a whole bunch of variables that determine
behaviour of keyboard when keys are press within focus of the app's
window(s).

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#32484

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-08 00:35 +0000
Message-ID	<d7ls30Ft3hcU9@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#32481

On 2015-10-08, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2015-10-07 14:59, Jolly Roger wrote:
>
>> Yep, I just noticed you have to restart applications for them to pick up
>> the change.
>
> One would think that key repeat would be a very low level, keyboard
> driver feature, and a change behaviour at the driver level would kick in
> for all apps.

I wouldn't think that at all. Speak for yourself. : )

> I guess when a GUI app sets up a connection to accept keyboard events,
> it reads configs and sets up a whole bunch of variables that determine
> behaviour of keyboard when keys are press within focus of the app's
> window(s).

Apps don't have to do any of that, since Apple's APIs take care of
everything automatically.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#32466

From	dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson)
Date	2015-10-08 10:14 +1300
Message-ID	<1mbyx43.1kn2div11zdlmhN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz>
In reply to	#32436

Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:

> On 10/7/15, 11:35 AM, in article
> 561565ba$0$49161$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com, "JF Mezei"
> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> 
> > On 2015-10-07 13:53, Jolly Roger wrote:
> > 
> >> <http://osxdaily.com/2011/08/04/enable-key-repeat-mac-os-x-lion/>
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks. Had not noticed this. I have my own keyboard design, and holding
> > down the "e" didn't even pop up a menu with all accented versions of the e.
> > 
> > Interesting that the System Preferences for Yosemite still has key
> > repeat settings even if Apple would have disabled key repeat by default.
> 
> I figured key repeat still worked for SOME keys, just not ones with
> "variants". In testing this is not the case!

The repeat delay and rate do still work for some keys: anything which is
not a letter or number, including arrow keys, space, return, tab,
brackets, etc. They also affect the special function keys such as
brightness and volume control.

> "Delay Until Repeat" effects the delay until you see the variants.
> 
> Maybe it is different in different programs? I only tested in TextEdit.

It depends on whether the application is using Cocoa frameworks to get
keyboard input. TextEdit (along with most other modern applications) do
support this, older Carbon applications like MacSOUP don't. Terminal
either isn't using the Carbon framework or is deliberately avoiding the
feature because alphanumeric key repeat is more important in a command
line context.

Some applications are a weird halfway house. FileMaker Pro 11 on
Yosemite doesn't show the character selector popup, but it autorepeats
keys that would show that popup in other applications. For example 'e'
autorepeats, but 'd' doesn't. (The popup does appear in a context such
as the filename entry field in Save As.) FileMaker Pro 12 and later
behave like TextEdit.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#32470

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 16:09 -0700
Message-ID	<D23AF433.5F6A9%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32466

On 10/7/15, 2:14 PM, in article
1mbyx43.1kn2div11zdlmhN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz, "David Empson"
<dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 10/7/15, 11:35 AM, in article
>> 561565ba$0$49161$c3e8da3$92d0a893@news.astraweb.com, "JF Mezei"
>> <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2015-10-07 13:53, Jolly Roger wrote:
>>> 
>>>> <http://osxdaily.com/2011/08/04/enable-key-repeat-mac-os-x-lion/>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks. Had not noticed this. I have my own keyboard design, and holding
>>> down the "e" didn't even pop up a menu with all accented versions of the e.
>>> 
>>> Interesting that the System Preferences for Yosemite still has key
>>> repeat settings even if Apple would have disabled key repeat by default.
>> 
>> I figured key repeat still worked for SOME keys, just not ones with
>> "variants". In testing this is not the case!
> 
> The repeat delay and rate do still work for some keys: anything which is
> not a letter or number, including arrow keys, space, return, tab,
> brackets, etc. They also affect the special function keys such as
> brightness and volume control.

Thanks. Had not thought of those, but, yup just tested and they do as you
say. 

>> "Delay Until Repeat" effects the delay until you see the variants.
>> 
>> Maybe it is different in different programs? I only tested in TextEdit.
> 
> It depends on whether the application is using Cocoa frameworks to get
> keyboard input. TextEdit (along with most other modern applications) do
> support this, older Carbon applications like MacSOUP don't. Terminal
> either isn't using the Carbon framework or is deliberately avoiding the
> feature because alphanumeric key repeat is more important in a command
> line context.
> 
> Some applications are a weird halfway house. FileMaker Pro 11 on
> Yosemite doesn't show the character selector popup, but it autorepeats
> keys that would show that popup in other applications. For example 'e'
> autorepeats, but 'd' doesn't. (The popup does appear in a context such
> as the filename entry field in Save As.) FileMaker Pro 12 and later
> behave like TextEdit.

Weird how FMPro 11 works. Sounds like a bug they fixed. I still have the
very ancient FMPro 8.5 which no longer even full works on modern Mac OSs
(you cannot print or save as PDF, making it largely useless for me, but I
still have it). For my use upgrading is too expensive.


-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32428

From	Snit <usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
Date	2015-10-07 11:16 -0700
Message-ID	<D23AAF95.5F538%usenet@gallopinginsanity.com>
In reply to	#32424

On 10/7/15, 10:43 AM, in article
9d2dnRPZhcVVxIjLnZ2dnUU7-budnZ2d@earthlink.com, "Ant" <ANTant@zimage.com>
wrote:

> Hello.
> 
> When I hold down a key to repeat showing its character (e.g., z for
> zzzzzzzzzz) in Mac OS X v10.10.5, I get a pop-up window showing other
> characters. How can I disabled this and have my stuck key to show all if
> its character I want? I checked my Keyboard settings and couldn't change
> it. The only app that does this correctly is Terminal. Word 2011,
> TextEdit, etc. show this issue. :(
> 
> Thank you in advance. :)

I thought there as a GUI setting for this but cannot find it off hand.

Did find this:

    defaults write -g ApplePressAndHoldEnabled -bool false

Warning, that is from here: <http://goo.gl/lSgE2> and was written for Lion.

Other sites give the same command, though, and I see no evidence of anyone
blowing their computer up with it. :)

What I did find when playing is if you change the setting "Delay Until
Repeat" in the Keyboard settings it also effects how long until you get the
character options. 

-- 
* OS X / Linux: What is a file?     <http://youtu.be/_dMbXGLW9PI>
* Mint MATE Trash, Panel, Menu:     <http://youtu.be/C0y74FIf7uE>
* Mint KDE working with folders:    <http://youtu.be/7C9nvniOoE0>
* Mint KDE creating files:          <http://youtu.be/N7-fZJaJUv8>
* Mint KDE help:                    <http://youtu.be/3ikizUd3sa8>
* Mint KDE general navigation:      <http://youtu.be/t9y14yZtQuI>
* Mint KDE bugs or Easter eggs?     <http://youtu.be/CU-whJQvtfA>
* Easy on OS X / Hard on Linux:     <http://youtu.be/D3BPWANQoIk>
* OS / Word Processor Comparison:   <http://youtu.be/w6Qcl-w7s5c>

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#32434

From	ANTant@zimage.com (Ant)
Date	2015-10-07 13:40 -0500
Message-ID	<PbWdnQ-KX4OE-ojLnZ2dnUU7-QmdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
In reply to	#32428

> > When I hold down a key to repeat showing its character (e.g., z for
> > zzzzzzzzzz) in Mac OS X v10.10.5, I get a pop-up window showing other
> > characters. How can I disabled this and have my stuck key to show all if
> > its character I want? I checked my Keyboard settings and couldn't change
> > it. The only app that does this correctly is Terminal. Word 2011,
> > TextEdit, etc. show this issue. :(
> > 
> > Thank you in advance. :)

> I thought there as a GUI setting for this but cannot find it off hand.

> Did find this:

>     defaults write -g ApplePressAndHoldEnabled -bool false

> Warning, that is from here: <http://goo.gl/lSgE2> and was written for Lion.

> Other sites give the same command, though, and I see no evidence of anyone
> blowing their computer up with it. :)

What sucks is that what if I want to use this feature? So I have to use 
this command back and forth in Terminal? :(
-- 
Quote of the Week: "It is said that the lonely eagle flies to the 
mountain peaks while the lowly ant crawls the ground, but cannot the 
soul of the ant soar as high as the eagle?" --unknown
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
  /\___/\   Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.home.dhs.org (Personal Web Site)
 / /\ /\ \                 Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o   o| |
   \ _ /    Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail privately. If credit-
    ( )     ing, then please kindly use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

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#32435

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-10-07 18:49 +0000
Message-ID	<d7l7qgFogllU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#32434

On 2015-10-07, Ant <ANTant@zimage.com> wrote:
>> > When I hold down a key to repeat showing its character (e.g., z for
>> > zzzzzzzzzz) in Mac OS X v10.10.5, I get a pop-up window showing other
>> > characters. How can I disabled this and have my stuck key to show all if
>> > its character I want? I checked my Keyboard settings and couldn't change
>> > it. The only app that does this correctly is Terminal. Word 2011,
>> > TextEdit, etc. show this issue. :(
>> > 
>> > Thank you in advance. :)
>
>> I thought there as a GUI setting for this but cannot find it off hand.
>
>> Did find this:
>
>>     defaults write -g ApplePressAndHoldEnabled -bool false
>
>> Warning, that is from here: <http://goo.gl/lSgE2> and was written for Lion.
>
>> Other sites give the same command, though, and I see no evidence of anyone
>> blowing their computer up with it. :)
>
> What sucks is that what if I want to use this feature? So I have to use 
> this command back and forth in Terminal? :(

You can still repeat a letter - you just have to press the key
repeatedly rather than holding it down.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Holding down a key does not show repeating inputted characters?

Contents

#32472

#32477

#32479

#32488

#32512

#32514

#32515

#32522

#32485

#32469

#32471

#32452

#32454

#32481

#32484

#32466

#32470

#32428

#32434

#32435