Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security

From	Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.os.linux.advocacy, comp.os.linux.misc, alt.os.linux
Subject	Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security
Date	2024-10-25 02:25 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<vffdl3$32jvk$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(8 earlier) <Tp7SO.69419$MxR.41276@fx47.iad> <vfdqnn$2mh9m$1@dont-email.me> <QuvSO.15932$Vuz4.6918@fx08.iad> <UJWdnVyvF5UrLIf6nZ2dnZfqnPSdnZ2d@giganews.com> <vfehdj$2qk0v$2@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Thu, 10/24/2024 6:23 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 16:44:38 -0400, bad sector wrote:
> 
>> You don't even have to be a nationalist, motherboards and gpu's (some
>> research, automated printed circuit production and little more) costing
>> $1000 up are well within domestic margins as it is.
> 
> Why is Taiwan the world capital for computer hardware? Because the 
> Government had the foresight to support private investment in hardware 
> manufacturing back in the 1980s, which didn’t fully pay off for close to 
> another decade. But when it did pay off, it effectively killed off most PC 
> hardware manufacturing in the US and elsewhere.
> 
> Who in the US is going to take the risk of such a long-term investment? 
> They weren’t capable then, they’re even less capable now. You don’t even 
> believe in the idea that Government can be helpful to businesses, as 
> opposed to being an obstacle to them.
> 

Labor cost is an input.

Some of the materials for domestic production, would be turnkey systems.
For example, a solder tunnel is a turnkey system. There can be a lot of
automation on some parts of the process. But test and integration is
an issue. (Asus might have a thousand women sitting at tables, doing test.
we don't have a thousand women sitting at tables doing that in North America.)
And anyone who has been remotely near one of our factories,
knows what a zoo it is inside. Every factory is a zoo. Even the
Asus factory will be a zoo. It's the nature of the beast.
Foxconn has 500,000 employees.

And to give you some idea how the two countries differ, to do a certain
repair procedure here (down the street from us), cost $1000. That operation
is only suited to a prototype PCB (cost is too high for any other purpose).
In Taiwan, the same procedure costs $25. Why ? well one of the reasons,
is the Taiwan dude doing them, is doing one after another, all day. He never stops.
Our local shop, he is paid to sit on his hands all week, and he does about
one a week. This means we could do better, with volume, but ultimately,
the pay rate of the two dudes is different. Not by much, but different.
The pay scale of a skilled tech worker in the foreign countries has risen
since we started offshoring. But it's still profitable to use them.
Not all the workers are skilled. The untrained ones are cheaper.
Some jobs need knowledgeable staff. There are still a lot of
humans that need *constant* supervision (why it is a zoo!).
Everyone has to pull on the oars in the same direction.
Our workers don't always do that.

If you automate everything (like Musk tried to do), the cost is high
for the equipment, and the profit from your little operation, has
to pay off that equipment. The equipment has to be programmed.
The maintenance staff to keep everything running, those are skilled
individuals. And on any given day, there can be a work stoppage
until some code or script is fixed up. In essence, the robots
are just as dumb, as some of the people they replaced. One thing
humans can do, is for trivial issues, they can work around the issue
until the root cause is resolved. Robots won't be doing it that way.
And no, don't say the word AI :-)

*******

What I didn't mention, is we have none of the humans discussed above.
We have no skilled workers. Once their jobs were offshored, they
became Uber drivers and UPS delivery people. They're not coming back.
we don't have enough professors with the right backgrounds, to
teach a new generation of people. There is a long period
of rebuilding the industry.

For example, years ago here, I could stop a guy on the street
and ask him if he could solder, and he probably could.
If I did that today, the teenager watching TikTok vids
on his phone would look up and say "what is solder?".
We're devoid of a certain kind of individual. Only some
places have clusters of tech workers now.

Consider a conversation I had with an HR person once, over a beer.
we were joking about something, and she tells me "when the resumes
come in, if a tech worker has been out of work for a year, I just
throw out their resume". She didn't read the resume, to find out
what skills she is throwing away. That gives you some idea, of the opinion
of HR to the state of the tech workers. Even if there were old farts
sitting around typing posts to USENEt, you would not hire them, because...
their resume was already thrown in the garbage :-) None of you
should be particularly surprised by this. Seeing the barrier yet ?
Seeing how difficult it is to bootstrap anything ? That's why my
estimate is, it would take twenty years effort to even get close
to rebuilding an industry. No business man is that patient. Sorry.

   Paul

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Thread

Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> - 2024-10-21 19:07 +0000
  Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Phillip Frabott <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2024-10-22 07:44 -0400
    Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-22 08:32 -0400
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-22 13:34 +0100
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Phillip Frabott <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2024-10-22 09:15 -0400
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 09:18 -0400
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-22 14:25 +0100
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 10:51 -0400
              {OT) Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-22 18:02 -0400
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Donald Trump <Donald@trump.com> - 2024-10-22 22:50 +0000
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 19:49 -0400
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:02 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 20:28 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 04:39 +0000
                {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-23 07:23 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-23 07:31 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-23 13:15 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-25 05:43 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-25 17:33 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-25 22:47 +0100
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-25 18:09 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-26 01:07 +0100
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-25 20:38 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 06:38 +0000
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-26 08:33 -0400
                Re: {OT illegal-alien} ...was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 01:10 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-23 10:11 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-22 20:34 -0400
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-23 10:05 +0200
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-23 13:01 -0400
                Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:29 +0000
                Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-23 21:17 -0400
                Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 03:48 +0000
                {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-24 07:31 -0400
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-24 12:40 +0100
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-24 09:10 -0400
                Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 22:26 +0000
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-24 09:45 -0400
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-24 14:58 +0100
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-24 11:39 -0400
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-24 12:48 -0400
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-25 05:56 -0400
                Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 22:25 +0000
                {OT} was was bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-25 08:28 -0400
                Re: Left vs Wrong Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 20:42 +0000
                Re: Left vs Wrong Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-27 02:06 +0000
                Re: Left vs Wrong Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 02:22 +0000
                Re: Left vs Wrong Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-27 07:42 -0400
                Re: Left vs Wrong Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2024-10-27 09:17 -0300
                Re: Left vs Wrong bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-27 13:07 -0400
                Bethlehem; [was Re: Left vs Wrong] Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2024-10-29 03:57 +0000
                Re: Left vs Wrong Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-27 07:38 -0400
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-24 09:07 -0400
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2024-10-24 14:31 -0300
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-24 14:14 -0400
                Re: {OT} was...Re: Left vs Wrong (was Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security) Shadow <Sh@dow.br> - 2024-10-24 15:34 -0300
                Migrant Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-25 05:59 +0200
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:00 +0000
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 20:21 -0400
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-26 03:32 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-26 19:27 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 23:43 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-26 19:58 -0400
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-10-23 06:48 +1000
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 23:59 +0000
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-22 16:57 -0400
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2024-10-24 02:48 +0000
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 09:17 -0400
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security John McCue <jmccue@magnetar.jmcunx.com> - 2024-10-22 14:05 +0000
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-22 17:37 +0100
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-22 16:57 -0400
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Phillip Frabott <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2024-10-23 08:24 -0400
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-23 09:07 -0400
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security John McCue <jmccue@magnetar.jmcunx.com> - 2024-10-23 13:57 +0000
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 20:42 +0000
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2024-10-25 06:03 +0200
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-10-25 11:28 +0000
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 20:47 +0000
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-22 18:03 -0400
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 19:36 -0400
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-22 23:57 +0000
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-22 20:19 -0400
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 00:45 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-22 21:17 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 01:46 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-23 10:06 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-23 21:27 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> - 2024-10-24 03:25 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-24 08:57 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 20:40 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-24 11:56 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-24 13:30 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-24 16:44 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 22:23 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-25 00:05 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 04:37 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-25 08:47 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 20:41 +0000
                {OT} was Re: bad sector <forgetski@_INVALID.net> - 2024-10-26 18:34 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 02:20 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Donald Trump <Donald@trump.com> - 2024-10-25 04:45 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-25 02:25 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-25 17:32 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-10-25 16:16 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 04:38 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 05:38 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-26 03:48 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 22:22 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 22:21 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2024-10-26 00:48 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-25 06:57 -0400
  Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-23 03:07 -0400
    Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-23 09:01 +0100
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 04:48 +0000
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-24 18:48 +0100
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-24 22:19 +0000
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-25 18:10 +0000
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-25 19:36 +0000
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 22:13 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2024-10-25 15:39 -0700
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 23:43 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-28 03:20 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 09:39 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-28 13:40 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2024-10-28 11:29 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-10-28 18:10 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 22:31 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-29 00:03 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-28 21:41 +0100
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 21:20 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-28 11:09 +0100
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-29 01:28 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-29 02:33 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-29 03:47 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-29 04:52 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-29 05:58 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-29 18:35 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-29 07:19 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> - 2024-10-29 13:27 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-29 20:44 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-26 01:08 +0100
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 02:37 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-26 05:45 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 05:51 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-26 03:01 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-26 11:01 +0100
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-26 12:21 +0200
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-27 00:28 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-27 00:25 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-26 18:01 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 23:27 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-27 01:44 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 10:13 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-27 17:11 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 21:16 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-27 22:32 +0100
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 09:06 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-28 11:13 +0100
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 21:18 +0000
                As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . "Relf"  <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> - 2024-10-26 13:25 -0700
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-27 02:06 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 02:21 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-27 01:35 -0400
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-27 11:00 +0100
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 10:28 +0000
                The "big bang" was fueled by "residual eXergy" (potential entropy). "Relf"  <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> - 2024-10-27 04:18 -0700
                Re: The "big bang" was fueled by "residual eXergy" (potential entropy). The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 11:32 +0000
                We're in the middle, always. "Relf"  <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> - 2024-10-27 06:23 -0700
                Re: We're in the middle, always. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 13:30 +0000
                Who you are, where you are, when you are. "Relf"  <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> - 2024-10-27 07:07 -0700
                Re: Who you are, where you are, when you are. The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 14:51 +0000
                Re: We're in the middle, always. rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-27 17:25 +0000
                Re: The "big bang" was fueled by "residual eXergy" (potential entropy). rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-27 17:22 +0000
                Re: The "big bang" was fueled by "residual eXergy" (potential entropy). Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 21:21 +0000
                Re: The "big bang" was fueled by "residual eXergy" (potential entropy). Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 21:19 +0000
                Re: The "big bang" was fueled by "residual eXergy" (potential entropy). Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> - 2024-10-27 19:47 -0700
                Re: The "big bang" was fueled by "residual eXergy" (potential entropy). The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 09:37 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-27 22:34 +0100
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-28 00:48 -0400
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 09:32 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-28 11:10 +0100
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-28 17:35 -0400
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 22:37 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-29 02:27 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-29 11:32 +0100
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 09:12 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-28 11:22 +0100
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 10:32 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-10-28 21:47 +0100
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 21:31 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-10-28 16:22 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 10:25 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-27 10:25 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-27 17:28 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-28 00:37 -0400
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 09:41 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-28 19:12 -0400
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-29 07:17 +0000
                Re: As the cosmos goes from infinitely hot/dense to infinitely cold/sparse . . . Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-27 20:54 +0000
                Whether it's enough or not depends on what kind of a being you might be. "Relf"  <Usenet@Jeff-Relf.Me> - 2024-10-29 06:56 -0700
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Physfitfreak <physfitfreak@gmail.com> - 2024-10-27 20:46 -0500
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-28 09:33 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2024-10-28 09:48 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2024-10-28 12:32 -0400
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-28 21:33 +0000
                Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2024-10-29 01:45 +0000
            Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-10-26 09:56 +0100
              Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-26 23:27 +0000
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-25 01:09 -0400
        Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-25 22:17 +0000
          Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-26 03:19 -0400
    Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Phillip Frabott <nntp@fulltermprivacy.com> - 2024-10-23 08:36 -0400
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-25 02:48 -0400
    Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security Lester Thorpe <lt@gnu.rocks> - 2024-10-24 18:53 +0000
      Re: Torvalds Slams Theoretical Security "186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> - 2024-10-25 02:58 -0400

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