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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.os.linux.misc, alt.usage.english |
| Subject | Re: OT: degrowth |
| Date | 2026-03-23 12:12 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <9qj79mxo0d.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> (permalink) |
| References | (22 earlier) <1rs9smu.jbxbeu1db40cvN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <n274rbFtaueU1@mid.individual.net> <1rsbpkc.vc5k1918vdagaN%nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> <n27mqsF1t48U1@mid.individual.net> <10pn28v$2pchc$2@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 2026-03-21 22:23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2026 14:04:11 +0000, Hibou wrote:
>
>> ... but I still think mass migration is a problem. It imposes
>> logistical (housing…) and cultural stresses on the receiving
>> country, and it is impossible to fix all the world's trouble spots
>> by moving their populations somewhere else.
>
> Economic studies continue to show that immigrants are a net asset to
> their host countries, not a net liability.
>
> In other words, migration is a problem with its own solution. All the
> disruptions are essentially short-term: given the chance, the migrants
> themselves contribute to the pool of skilled workers and businesses
> that will create the facilities for accommodating the increased
> population.
>
> In other, other words: the most important resource in any economy is
> people. Countries with low birth rates, in particular, need to make up
> the shortfall in new, younger minds and bodies somehow; if the women
> don’t want to have more babies, how else are you going to do it, if
> not by mass migration?
<https://www.publico.es/sociedad/m-ambiente/cientificos-cuestionan-dogma-capitalismo-posible-alto-grado-bienestar-crecimiento-economico.html>
Scientists challenge the dogma of capitalism: a ‘high standard of
living’ is possible without economic growth
A study led by the Autonomous University of Barcelona shows that
perpetual growth is not necessary if priority is given to the
redistribution of wealth and the production of essential resources.
Adhik Arrilucea
Madrid 17/03/2026 21:45
Economic growth and sustainable development are the driving forces
behind Western societies seeking to maintain their upward trends in the
accumulation of resources and wealth. But this is not the only paradigm
that exists. For some time now, new ways of imagining other possible
worlds have become popular. Thus, social movements, science and
philosophy have pursued research into degrowth. In contrast to current
policies, this approach takes the planet’s limits into account and
argues that, through fair redistribution, it is possible to live with
dignity and have all our needs met without increasing production.
These theories and approaches are not new. In November 2023, Letizia
Ortiz herself went so far as to cite ecologists such as CSIC scientist
Antonio Turiel. She thus acknowledged the development of ideas according
to which “development and sustainability can no longer go hand in hand”.
She did so during the 16th International Seminar on Language and
Journalism, where she was accompanied, among other figures, by the then
Minister for Digital Transformation, José Luis Escrivá. He retorted,
however, that degrowth postulates “appear to be extremely weak in their
foundations”. Nevertheless, experts have continued to develop a
theoretical framework along these lines capable of analysing the reality
of the climate crisis in all its aspects.
A new study led by scientists from the Institute of Environmental
Science and Technology at the Autonomous University of Barcelona
(ICTA-UAB) explores how to achieve “high well-being” and a safe climate
without economic growth. The paper, published in Nature Climate Change
(<https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-026-02580-6>), is a perspective
piece. In other words, it is not a conventional case study, where a
specific issue is investigated – to which a methodology is applied to
obtain results from which conclusions are drawn. However, it undergoes
the same peer-review process as standard articles.
What is degrowth?
This perspective sets out the principles for modelling post-growth
scenarios. ‘Post-growth is an umbrella term that encompasses a range of
approaches which prioritise environmental sustainability, social equity
and human well-being over the perpetual pursuit of economic growth,’
explains Aljoša Slameršak, lead author of the study and a researcher at
ICTA-UAB, in comments to Público. This umbrella term includes the
concept of degrowth. This ‘refers to the planned and equitable reduction
of those economic activities that are ecologically destructive or that
do not contribute to human well-being’.
The research argues that "growth increases demand for energy, land and
the use of materials. This is particularly problematic in the case of
high-income economies and wealthy individuals, who already have levels
of energy and material use far exceeding those necessary for
well-being‘. Conversely, Slameršak notes that degrowth seeks to ’reduce
ecological pressure and free up resources currently allocated to
excessive consumption, to ensure decent living conditions for all".
The research identifies five fundamental principles of post-growth:
well-being, sufficiency, reducing inequalities, reorienting the economy,
and North-South convergence. According to the lead author, all these
core criteria are inextricably linked. “It is not possible, for example,
to have an economy that provides high levels of well-being whilst
overproduction and waste among the rich persist, as this will inevitably
lead to exceeding planetary boundaries.” In the same vein, he is
sceptical about the “prospects of a good life for the majority whilst
enormous inequalities persist within societies and imperial economic
relations between the countries of the North and the Global South”.
The article identifies several key mechanisms for the transition to
post-growth. ‘Post-growth involves redistributing and restructuring the
economy to provide the essentials, ensuring a decent standard of living
for all people, whilst keeping non-essential additional consumption
within levels compatible with planetary boundaries. This requires a
substantial reduction in current inequalities,’ says co-author Joel
Millward-Hopkins of the University of Lausanne in a statement.
(... continues on the link, in Spanish)
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-09 01:16 +0200
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 00:58 +0000
Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 01:07 -0400
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 06:22 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:00 +0000
Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 10:09 +0000
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 06:16 +0000
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 06:24 +0000
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 06:54 +0000
Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-09 07:37 +0000
Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-10 09:37 +0200
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 10:37 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-11 10:09 +1100
Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-10 13:25 +0000
Re: GNU Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.invalid> - 2026-03-10 14:26 +0000
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-10 15:49 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 12:54 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-15 12:07 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-16 12:11 +1100
Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-16 07:07 +0000
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-16 07:50 +0000
Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-16 22:03 +1300
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 13:00 +0000
Re: GNU Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-03-17 18:08 +0000
Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-16 09:28 +0000
Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-16 10:36 +0000
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-16 08:58 +0100
Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-16 09:28 +0000
Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-16 09:34 +1300
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:23 +0100
Re: GNU Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-15 23:38 +0000
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-15 21:24 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 12:56 +0000
Re: GNU Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-03-16 12:27 +0000
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:27 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-16 13:29 +1100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-16 06:29 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-16 17:52 +1100
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 00:32 -0700
Re: GNU Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-03-16 12:41 +0000
Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 08:55 -0700
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 10:03 +1100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:01 +0000
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-17 08:18 +0100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 19:03 +0000
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-17 12:27 -0700
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-17 22:23 +0100
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-17 22:18 +0100
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-18 10:42 +1100
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-17 22:29 -0600
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:35 +0000
Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 12:39 -0700
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-17 15:55 -0700
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-18 07:47 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 09:42 +0000
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:06 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:08 +0000
Re: GNU Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-03-09 09:45 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:12 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 21:52 +0000
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-09 23:07 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-10 16:28 +1100
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-10 08:57 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 10:30 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 17:53 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 19:24 +0100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 05:34 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 10:32 +0000
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-10 12:43 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-10 11:47 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 18:10 +0000
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-10 18:06 +0000
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-10 19:35 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-11 10:13 +1100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 09:57 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-11 21:41 +1100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 12:19 +0000
Re: GNU vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-03-11 14:19 +0000
Re: GNU Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-03-12 02:49 +0000
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-12 04:51 +0000
Encodings (was: Re: GNU) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-12 10:36 +0000
Re: GNU liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-03-11 17:55 +0000
Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-11 19:03 +0000
Re: GNU richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-03-11 19:11 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-11 20:22 +0000
Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-11 22:06 +0000
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-11 11:40 -0600
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-10 13:56 -0600
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-09 22:10 -0600
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 21:17 +1100
Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-10 11:40 +1300
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-10 16:34 +1100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:07 +0000
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 13:29 +0000
Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 15:48 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 20:49 +0000
Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-09 14:36 +0000
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-09 11:35 -0600
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:07 +0000
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 14:11 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:25 +0000
Re: GNU Charles Hope <clh@candehope.me.uk> - 2026-03-09 15:45 +0000
Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 00:49 -0400
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 16:42 +1100
Re: GNU Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> - 2026-03-09 08:18 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:14 +0000
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-09 20:32 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-09 08:10 +0000
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-09 12:51 -0600
Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 15:23 -0400
Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-10 09:42 +0200
Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-10 09:46 +0200
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-11 20:59 +0100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 20:58 +0000
Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-09 09:04 -0700
Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 10:00 +0000
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-08 22:06 -0600
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 06:25 +0000
Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-09 10:28 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:38 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 16:59 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-07 12:34 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-07 22:37 +0100
Re: GNU athel.cb@gmail.com <user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-03-07 17:00 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-07 22:35 +0100
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-07 16:25 -0600
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-08 14:30 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 06:02 +0000
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-08 07:42 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:42 +0000
Re: GNU Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-03-08 16:40 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-09 14:20 +0000
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-07 18:41 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 23:37 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-07 22:33 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:05 +0100
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-08 09:53 +1100
Re: GNU Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> - 2026-03-08 07:45 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:56 +0000
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-08 20:54 +0000
Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-09 22:08 +1300
Re: GNU Aidan Kehoe <kehoea@parhasard.net> - 2026-03-09 13:31 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-07 12:28 +0000
Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-08 03:01 +0200
Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-08 01:40 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 04:37 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 06:22 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 07:32 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-08 20:27 +1100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-08 11:30 +0000
Re: GNU richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) - 2026-03-08 11:41 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 10:09 +1100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-08 16:56 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-09 10:13 +1100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-15 22:13 +0100
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-15 15:27 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 12:55 +0000
Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-16 09:13 -0400
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 13:19 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-16 20:40 +0000
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 14:32 -0700
Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 17:48 -0400
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 15:15 -0700
Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 20:00 -0400
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 11:23 +1100
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:51 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:23 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:41 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:50 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 12:58 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 12:22 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 15:24 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:05 +0000
Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 10:16 -0400
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:05 +0000
Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-17 11:49 -0400
Re: GNU Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 17:14 -0700
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 00:18 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 19:09 +0000
Re: GNU Janet <nobody@home.com> - 2026-03-17 13:38 +0000
Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-16 15:08 -0700
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 15:18 -0700
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:25 +0000
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 21:47 -0700
Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-18 05:35 +0200
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 10:16 +0000
Re: GNU Steve Hayes <hayesstw@telkomsa.net> - 2026-03-20 05:53 +0200
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 08:46 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:36 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-20 08:26 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:51 +0000
Re: GNU John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-17 09:26 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 19:10 +0000
Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-16 23:11 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 10:27 +1100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:27 +0000
Re: GNU "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-17 10:33 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:49 +0100
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:59 +0000
Re: GNU Ross Clark <benlizro@ihug.co.nz> - 2026-03-17 23:08 +1300
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 13:24 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 15:33 +0100
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 21:51 -0700
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 06:23 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:58 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:55 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-17 13:24 +0100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 18:56 +0000
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 22:59 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:07 +0100
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 04:01 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 14:03 +0100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-17 01:20 +0000
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-16 22:08 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:02 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:47 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 08:47 +0000
Re: GNU "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-17 10:41 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-18 11:04 +1100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-18 14:03 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 13:14 +0000
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-17 10:21 +1100
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-17 00:55 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 02:53 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-17 09:10 +0000
Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-17 11:43 -0400
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-17 22:37 +0100
Re: GNU Rich Ulrich <rich.ulrich@comcast.net> - 2026-03-17 18:43 -0400
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:15 +0100
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 02:19 +0000
Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-18 02:29 +0000
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-17 20:17 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 09:31 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 11:41 +0100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 18:28 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:31 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 23:26 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 11:48 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 12:17 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:31 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 14:24 +0100
Re: GNU Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-04-01 14:30 +0200
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-04-02 10:48 +1100
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-18 10:16 -0600
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-18 09:40 -0700
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 16:56 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 20:00 +0100
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 23:49 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 11:48 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:34 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 14:24 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 14:06 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 22:32 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 07:38 +0000
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:22 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:34 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-21 22:32 +0100
Re: GNU snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-19 15:24 +0000
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 17:50 +0000
Re: GNU rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 19:58 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 11:32 +0100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 12:19 +0000
Re: GNU Snidely <snidely.too@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 17:36 -0700
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:01 +0100
Re: GNU Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2026-03-18 19:16 -0700
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-19 13:36 +0100
Re: GNU Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 00:24 +0000
Re: GNU lar3ryca <larry@invalid.ca> - 2026-03-18 22:48 -0600
Re: GNU Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-03-18 22:45 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-19 10:01 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-18 11:42 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-20 12:39 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:38 +0100
Re: GNU Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:22 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-21 22:32 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-22 03:19 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-22 10:52 +0100
Re: GNU "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-03-22 15:12 +0100
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-22 18:37 +0100
Re: GNU Tony Cooper <tonycooper214@gmail.com> - 2026-03-22 16:31 -0400
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-22 23:31 +0100
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-22 23:18 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-23 11:57 +0100
Re: GNU Peter Moylan <peter@pmoylan.org> - 2026-03-23 22:15 +1100
Re: GNU The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-23 11:30 +0000
Re: GNU nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2026-03-23 13:55 +0100
Re: GNU Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 09:15 +0000
Re: GNU Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-03-24 10:17 +0000
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