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If you were to design a netnews protocol today...

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  If you were to design a netnews protocol today... George Musk <grgmusk@skiff.com> - 2024-08-07 14:32 +0000
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> - 2024-08-07 18:03 +0200
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-28 16:41 +0300
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Michael Bäuerle <michael.baeuerle@stz-e.de> - 2024-08-28 17:04 +0200
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-07 17:23 +0100
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-08 08:49 +1000
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 01:29 +0000
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-08-07 21:52 -0500
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 07:32 +0000
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-08 13:41 +0100
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-08 23:54 +0000
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-08-14 22:05 -0500
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-15 07:20 +0000
              Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-15 13:37 +0300
                Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-15 16:30 +0100
                  Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-15 18:48 +0300
                    Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <remailer@domain.invalid> - 2024-08-15 13:15 -0400
                    Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-15 23:30 +0200
                      Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-15 23:03 +0100
                        Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-16 09:41 +0200
                      Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-15 23:35 +0042
                        Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-16 09:44 +0200
                          Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-27 19:51 -0300
                            Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-28 10:45 +0200
                    Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-27 19:49 -0300
                      Re: Usenet as social media [was:Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today...] kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-09-04 11:40 +0000
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... steveo@panix.com (Steven M. O'Neill) - 2024-08-15 14:11 +0000
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-16 02:07 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 11:18 -0700
                  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-17 21:45 +0200
                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 13:04 -0700
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-17 20:31 +0000
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 15:41 -0700
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 15:35 -0700
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-18 11:04 +0200
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-18 08:25 -0700
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-21 10:50 +0100
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-21 16:08 +0200
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-18 17:11 +0000
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-18 10:37 -0700
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 00:02 +0200
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-08-20 22:07 +0000
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-21 10:52 +0100
                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-18 10:18 +0100
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 00:00 +0200
                  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-27 19:53 -0300
                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2024-08-27 19:51 -0700
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-28 21:34 -0300
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-29 01:42 +0042
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-29 10:21 +0200
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-29 13:57 +0000
                              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-29 16:56 +0042
                                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-29 17:07 +0000
                                  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-30 11:58 +0300
                                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-30 22:53 +0200
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-30 18:51 -0300
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-30 22:50 +0042
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-29 10:18 +0200
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-29 09:22 +0042
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-05 01:28 +0000
                              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-09-05 15:10 +0000
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-30 18:53 -0300
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-09-01 22:47 -0300
                              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-09-02 06:56 +0042
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-29 13:30 +0300
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-30 18:55 -0300
                  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 00:53 +0100
                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-28 01:59 +0042
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 03:07 +0100
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-28 03:08 +0042
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-28 17:50 +0000
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-28 19:41 +0300
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 18:52 +0100
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-28 19:34 +0100
                              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 19:58 +0100
                                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2024-08-28 21:16 +0100
                          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2024-08-28 17:55 -0300
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 22:04 +0100
                              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2024-08-28 22:40 +0000
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-29 13:12 +0300
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-08-31 23:47 +0000
                            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-05 01:34 +0000
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-28 10:46 +0200
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-28 15:09 +0042
                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2024-08-28 18:11 +0000
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-28 19:58 +0100
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2024-08-08 09:39 +0000
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-08 14:16 +0100
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2024-08-08 04:31 +0100
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-09 08:23 +0100
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-09 17:34 +0100
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-09 19:13 +0100
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-10 00:25 +0000
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-10 09:14 +0100
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-10 08:17 +0000
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-10 15:05 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2024-08-10 16:51 +0000
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-10 23:41 +0200
                  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... bks@panix.com (Bradley K. Sherman) - 2024-08-10 22:10 +0000
                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... William Stickers <bill.stickers@innocent.com> - 2024-08-12 10:23 +0100
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2024-08-12 11:21 +0100
                        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... William Stickers <bill.stickers@innocent.com> - 2024-08-12 21:41 +0100
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-09 22:25 +0200
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-09 22:27 +0200
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-09 21:38 +0042
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-13 22:34 -0300
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2024-08-14 03:44 +0000
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> - 2024-08-14 13:33 -0300
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-15 08:16 +1000
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2024-08-15 19:50 +0300
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-08-16 08:30 +1000
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-08-14 18:36 +0100
    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Andy K." <andy.k466@gmail.com> - 2024-08-17 16:49 +0200
      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-17 21:43 +0200
        Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... "Andy K." <andy.k466@gmail.com> - 2024-08-19 13:07 +0200
          Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 19:36 +0200
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-19 18:35 +0042
              Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-19 22:40 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-19 22:20 +0042
                  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-20 10:01 +0200
                    Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> - 2024-08-20 17:07 +0042
                      Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... D <nospam@example.net> - 2024-08-20 20:00 +0200
                Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2024-08-20 22:10 +0000
                  Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-08-21 07:28 +0000
            Re: If you were to design a netnews protocol today... anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> - 2025-05-12 06:24 +0000

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#25558

On Sun, 18 Aug 2024, Rich wrote:

> In comp.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> What is this nextdoor thing?  I have heard about it on usenet, but
>>>> I think it must be some US thing that has not yet reached europe.
>>>
>>> It's sort of like facebook, but divided into neighborhoods (literal
>>> neighborhoods, maybe 1 mile or so in diameter).  It's clunkier than
>>> facebook, but there's local stuff that makes it kind of useful --
>>> especially since the local newspaper now has ONE page of actual
>>> local news if we're lucky.  I would guess that half the participants
>>> have never used a computer, just a phone, and have very little
>>> comprehension of how the world actually works.  I really didn't
>>> realize how stupid people could be until I subscribed.  It's all
>>> over the US, and will probably invade Europe soon.
>>
>> Ahh, I see.  Seems very logical since the local press is almost gone.
>> I can really see the reason for it existing.  As you say, I would not
>> be surprised at all if it pops up in europe soon.
>
> Do keep in mind that you *do not* get the equivalent of the "local
> press" (as in news papers).  You don't get stories on what the local
> government board is proposing (unless it also gores someone's ox, and
> they then complain about their ox being gored by the local board on
> nextdoor).  Or other typical 'stories' you'd get from an actual local
> newspaper (if it existed).
>
> From what I've heard from folks around me that are members, what you
> get is a local gossip channel, with an occasional bit of useful info
> (coyote seen at X & Y streets yesterday at 06:30).
>

Ahh... so not even that, they managed to solve. How sad. Seems like a 
destillation of what is genuinely the worst aspects of neighbourhood life.

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#25584

In article <v9ta00$2euft$4@dont-email.me>, Rich  <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>Do keep in mind that you *do not* get the equivalent of the "local 
>press" (as in news papers).  You don't get stories on what the local 
>government board is proposing (unless it also gores someone's ox, and 
>they then complain about their ox being gored by the local board on 
>nextdoor).  Or other typical 'stories' you'd get from an actual local 
>newspaper (if it existed).

Yes, this is the problem. 

>From what I've heard from folks around me that are members, what you 
>get is a local gossip channel, with an occasional bit of useful info 
>(coyote seen at X & Y streets yesterday at 06:30).

Ours is mostly full of people complaining about other neighbors, or 
sending out alerts saying that they saw a black person in the area.
Also incoherent political nonsense.
--scott
-- 
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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#25591

On 20 Aug 2024 22:07:30 -0000
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> In article <v9ta00$2euft$4@dont-email.me>, Rich  <rich@example.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >Do keep in mind that you *do not* get the equivalent of the "local 
> >press" (as in news papers).  You don't get stories on what the local 
> >government board is proposing (unless it also gores someone's ox, and 
> >they then complain about their ox being gored by the local board on 
> >nextdoor).  Or other typical 'stories' you'd get from an actual local 
> >newspaper (if it existed).
> 
> Yes, this is the problem. 
> 
> From what I've heard from folks around me that are members, what you 
> >get is a local gossip channel, with an occasional bit of useful info 
> >(coyote seen at X & Y streets yesterday at 06:30).
> 
> Ours is mostly full of people complaining about other neighbors, or 
> sending out alerts saying that they saw a black person in the area.
> Also incoherent political nonsense.

There's a lot of ignorance out there; a heap of politicians rely on it.

-- 
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

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#25549

D <nospam@example.net> writes:
> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024, The Real Bev wrote:
>> And don't get me started about Nextdoor...
>
> What is this nextdoor thing? I have heard about it on usenet, but I
> think it must be some US thing that has not yet reached europe.

It reached Europe years ago, just not all of it. The European countries
it operates in are the UK, Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, Spain,
Sweden and Denmark.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#25557

On Sun, 18 Aug 2024, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

> D <nospam@example.net> writes:
>> On Sat, 17 Aug 2024, The Real Bev wrote:
>>> And don't get me started about Nextdoor...
>>
>> What is this nextdoor thing? I have heard about it on usenet, but I
>> think it must be some US thing that has not yet reached europe.
>
> It reached Europe years ago, just not all of it. The European countries
> it operates in are the UK, Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, Spain,
> Sweden and Denmark.
>

Wow! I feel happy that I am so checked out of modern social media that I 
was unaware! =) Great points for me! ;)

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#25626

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:

> On 8/15/24 7:07 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:11:43 -0000 (UTC), Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
>> 
>>> Grant Taylor  <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 8/8/24 02:32, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It's a complete rethinking of the way distributed social media is
>>>>> supposed to work.
>>>>
>>>>Usenet is not social media.
>>> ObDevilsAdvocate: Usenet is the original social medium.
>
> +1
>
> And it gives us maximum control over what we see or avoid.  No
> pictures or -- god forbid -- reels, but that's a good thing. The bad
> thing about reels is that they're addictive time-wasters.
>
>> Absolutely. And the centralization introduced by the web-based successors
>> (at least the proprietary ones) is a definite step back.
>
> What bothers me is that otherwise smart people have replaced usenet
> with Facebook.  Maybe X too, but I don't read that even if I have an
> account.   How hard can it be to do all three? The 'social media' make
> actual conversation, as opposed to post-it notes, difficult. I "know"
> the people I've known on usenet since 1995. I've met some of them IRL.
> FB people, unless friends of friends, are unknown strangers, just
> groups of words without names.

That's quite right.  I mean, I don't know anything about FB and the
other, but they're all very much unsusceptible to conversation.  So
they're totally time-wasters.

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#25636

On 8/27/24 3:53 PM, Johanne Fairchild wrote:
> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> On 8/15/24 7:07 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:11:43 -0000 (UTC), Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Grant Taylor  <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 8/8/24 02:32, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a complete rethinking of the way distributed social media is
>>>>>> supposed to work.
>>>>>
>>>>>Usenet is not social media.
>>>> ObDevilsAdvocate: Usenet is the original social medium.
>>
>> +1
>>
>> And it gives us maximum control over what we see or avoid.  No
>> pictures or -- god forbid -- reels, but that's a good thing. The bad
>> thing about reels is that they're addictive time-wasters.
>>
>>> Absolutely. And the centralization introduced by the web-based successors
>>> (at least the proprietary ones) is a definite step back.
>>
>> What bothers me is that otherwise smart people have replaced usenet
>> with Facebook.  Maybe X too, but I don't read that even if I have an
>> account.   How hard can it be to do all three? The 'social media' make
>> actual conversation, as opposed to post-it notes, difficult. I "know"
>> the people I've known on usenet since 1995. I've met some of them IRL.
>> FB people, unless friends of friends, are unknown strangers, just
>> groups of words without names.
> 
> That's quite right.  I mean, I don't know anything about FB and the
> other, but they're all very much unsusceptible to conversation.  So
> they're totally time-wasters.

Unfortunately, it's pretty much all we've got now.  Exceptions, of 
course, but my long-term "friends" don't show up in the newsgroups at 
all any more.  Not even the loons.

More like ants tapping feelers as they pass...

-- 
Cheers, Bev
    "We thought about one of those discount store caskets, but,
     frankly,  we were worried about the quality."
                                        -- mortuary commercial

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#25657

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:

> On 8/27/24 3:53 PM, Johanne Fairchild wrote:
>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>> 
>>> On 8/15/24 7:07 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:11:43 -0000 (UTC), Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Grant Taylor  <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 8/8/24 02:32, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a complete rethinking of the way distributed social media is
>>>>>>> supposed to work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Usenet is not social media.
>>>>> ObDevilsAdvocate: Usenet is the original social medium.
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> And it gives us maximum control over what we see or avoid.  No
>>> pictures or -- god forbid -- reels, but that's a good thing. The bad
>>> thing about reels is that they're addictive time-wasters.
>>>
>>>> Absolutely. And the centralization introduced by the web-based successors
>>>> (at least the proprietary ones) is a definite step back.
>>>
>>> What bothers me is that otherwise smart people have replaced usenet
>>> with Facebook.  Maybe X too, but I don't read that even if I have an
>>> account.   How hard can it be to do all three? The 'social media' make
>>> actual conversation, as opposed to post-it notes, difficult. I "know"
>>> the people I've known on usenet since 1995. I've met some of them IRL.
>>> FB people, unless friends of friends, are unknown strangers, just
>>> groups of words without names.
>> That's quite right.  I mean, I don't know anything about FB and the
>> other, but they're all very much unsusceptible to conversation.  So
>> they're totally time-wasters.
>
> Unfortunately, it's pretty much all we've got now.  Exceptions, of
> course, but my long-term "friends" don't show up in the newsgroups at 
> all any more.  Not even the loons.

Sometimes we need to wait.  We've done what we could so far.  The USENET
is still pretty good for conversation with the global community.  I wish
the experts would come back at least for a little while.  I believe the
experts come here, find not much and they go away.  I believe many have
done that.  In comp.lang.lisp, for example, there are more than a few
experts there, but they only appear sometimes because there's not much
going on there.

I wrote an NNTP server for a small semi-closed group.  Perhaps the
openness is not a very good thing anymore.  But I do think people still
want the all-connected-type of application these days, even at the
detriment of conversation---which is absurd.  I don't think good
conversation can be carried out this way.  But an NNTP server, say,
could have a phone app that's good for reading only.  Have you tried the
Hacker News apps?  They let you read the comments just fine.  The same
could be done for an NNTP server, but I never found a decent phone news
reader.

I think we're doing our part.  If the world has moved on, that's fine.
I'll continue to use NNTP and perhaps other media that are focused on
writing and reading.  I don't care for images, sounds, video or whatever
and I also think that NNTP sort of supports all of that: people here
often add external URLs on which we download videos, images and whatnot.

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#25658

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> writes:

> I think we're doing our part.

!!!

> If the world has moved on, that's fine.

Maybe.  I see not much fun New Fedistan (Mastodon & friends).
Generation 10 second attention span may see it differently.

> I'll continue to use NNTP and perhaps other media that are focused on
> writing and reading.

I like those gateways of mailing-lists and other stuff to NNTP.  We
should have even more stuff in/via NNTP.

> I don't care for images, sounds, video or whatever

Depending on the newsreader it may work.  GNUS already has problems with
animated GIFs, but if TB uses FF's HTML renderer, much more may be
possible.  There should be more experiments with this in other
hierarchies or contexts.

> and I also think that NNTP sort of supports all of that: people here
> often add external URLs on which we download videos, images and
> whatnot.

That's how it will stay in text only groups.  But NNTP is not only Big8
and their rules and with MIME a lot more is doable.  The client is the
limit.

\o/  I even get XKCD via NNTP.  \o/  Thanks feedbase!  \o/

-- 
4. Hitchhiker 11:
(72) "Watch the road!'' she yelped.
(73) "Shit!"

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#25661

On Thu, 29 Aug 2024, yeti wrote:

>> If the world has moved on, that's fine.
>
> Maybe.  I see not much fun New Fedistan (Mastodon & friends).
> Generation 10 second attention span may see it differently.

This is very interesting. I thought about this the other day, and came to 
the conclusion that for me, mastodon, is a worse usenet. More limits, 
slower, and with worse content and severely lacking in the blocking and 
filter department, but at the end of the day, pretty much the same.

>> I'll continue to use NNTP and perhaps other media that are focused on
>> writing and reading.
>
> I like those gateways of mailing-lists and other stuff to NNTP.  We
> should have even more stuff in/via NNTP.

A benefit of old school protocols is that they are fairly simple and text 
based. That makes it very easy to write integrations and gateways instead 
of todays modern, machine readable protocols.

>> I don't care for images, sounds, video or whatever
>
> Depending on the newsreader it may work.  GNUS already has problems with
> animated GIFs, but if TB uses FF's HTML renderer, much more may be
> possible.  There should be more experiments with this in other
> hierarchies or contexts.

I find it very easy and convenient to link to any media I would like to 
use to illustrate my texts. It does not happen often, but it is possible 
if necessary. I am all in favour of pushing media to the client and end 
user choice.

>> and I also think that NNTP sort of supports all of that: people here
>> often add external URLs on which we download videos, images and
>> whatnot.
>
> That's how it will stay in text only groups.  But NNTP is not only Big8
> and their rules and with MIME a lot more is doable.  The client is the
> limit.
>
> \o/  I even get XKCD via NNTP.  \o/  Thanks feedbase!  \o/
>
>

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#25665

In comp.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 29 Aug 2024, yeti wrote:
> 
>>> If the world has moved on, that's fine.
>>
>> Maybe.  I see not much fun New Fedistan (Mastodon & friends).
>> Generation 10 second attention span may see it differently.
> 
> This is very interesting. I thought about this the other day, and came to 
> the conclusion that for me, mastodon, is a worse usenet. More limits, 
> slower, and with worse content and severely lacking in the blocking and 
> filter department, but at the end of the day, pretty much the same.

Isn't Mastadon supposed to be the "open source twatter"?

If so, does it allow long form content, or is it intentionally crippled 
to the same "brain fart" size message units as twatter?

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#25666

Rich <rich@example.invalid> writes:

> Isn't Mastadon supposed to be the "open source twatter"?
>
> If so, does it allow long form content, or is it intentionally crippled 
> to the same "brain fart" size message units as twatter?

Some Mastodon nodes allow 500 chars, others up to gigantomanic lengths
per brain fart.  They may allow near to zero markup or other nodes
additionally HTML and Markdown.  They are federated with systems that
grok hashtags and with others that do not.

Such a level of feature inequality among federated nodes only deserves
one judgement: Fatal design flaw.

There are only a few major timelines and even hashtags don't cure that
and so there is no easy way for discussions to stay focused.

And filter mechanisms are very underdeveloped.

News readers had decades of evolution more than New Fedistan clients.

-- 
1. Hitchhiker 5: (44) Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz was delighted.  He knew
that when a Dentrassi looked that pleased with itself there was
something going on somewhere on the ship that he could get very angry
indeed about.

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#25667

In comp.misc yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> wrote:
> 
> News readers had decades of evolution more than New Fedistan clients.

This is very true, and I'd bet if we could time travel back to the way 
distant past, that many of the very useful features we take for granted 
in Usenet clients today would not be present in those early clients.  
The features got added when the irritation level of whatever caused the 
add exceeded the effort of writing the code for the additional feature.

Mastadon clients are in their 'very young child' age range of 
evolution.  Maybe in 30 years (assuming Mastadon's still a thing in 30 
years) they will have learned from Usenet and added the useful Usenet 
client features. 

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#25668

Rich to yeti:

> > News readers had decades of evolution more than New
> > Fedistan clients.
>
> This is very true, and I'd bet if we could time travel
> back to the way distant past, that many of the very useful
> features we take for granted in Usenet clients today would
> not be present in those early clients.  The features got
> added when the irritation level of whatever caused the add
> exceeded the effort of writing the code for the additional
> feature.
>
> Mastadon clients are in their 'very young child' age range
> of evolution.  Maybe in 30 years (assuming Mastadon's
> still a thing in 30 years) they will have learned from
> Usenet and added the useful Usenet client features.

I fear it will never come to pass, because modern platforms
are philosphically, ideologically, and aesthetically
incompatible with Usenet. The are designed to conform to
modern UX trends that promote a /negative entry threshold/,
an entry dip if you will, and substitute tawdriness for
elegance.

-- 
()  ascii ribbon campaign -- against html e-mail
/\  www.asciiribbon.org   -- against proprietary attachments

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#25669

On Fri, 30 Aug 2024, Anton Shepelev wrote:

> Rich to yeti:
>
>>> News readers had decades of evolution more than New
>>> Fedistan clients.
>>
>> This is very true, and I'd bet if we could time travel
>> back to the way distant past, that many of the very useful
>> features we take for granted in Usenet clients today would
>> not be present in those early clients.  The features got
>> added when the irritation level of whatever caused the add
>> exceeded the effort of writing the code for the additional
>> feature.
>>
>> Mastadon clients are in their 'very young child' age range
>> of evolution.  Maybe in 30 years (assuming Mastadon's
>> still a thing in 30 years) they will have learned from
>> Usenet and added the useful Usenet client features.
>
> I fear it will never come to pass, because modern platforms
> are philosphically, ideologically, and aesthetically
> incompatible with Usenet. The are designed to conform to
> modern UX trends that promote a /negative entry threshold/,
> an entry dip if you will, and substitute tawdriness for
> elegance.
>

Well, that's where small, individual open source projects fill an 
important niche. The big markets do push things into the same directions, 
but there's plenty of room for creative, individual unique projects.

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#25670

yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:

[...]

> \o/  I even get XKCD via NNTP.  \o/  Thanks feedbase!  \o/

How do I get that? :)

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#25674

Johanne Fairchild <jfairchild@tudado.org> writes:

> yeti <yeti@tilde.institute> writes:
>
> [...]
>
>> \o/  I even get XKCD via NNTP.  \o/  Thanks feedbase!  \o/
>
> How do I get that? :)

Top secret:

<https://feedbase.org/> has the details and for adding more feeds,
you'll need that address too.

-- 
1. Hitchhiker 2: (26) Ford looked back at him, genuinely surprised.

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#25660

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024, Johanne Fairchild wrote:

> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 8/27/24 3:53 PM, Johanne Fairchild wrote:
>>> The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 8/15/24 7:07 PM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Aug 2024 14:11:43 -0000 (UTC), Steven M. O'Neill wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Grant Taylor  <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/8/24 02:32, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's a complete rethinking of the way distributed social media is
>>>>>>>> supposed to work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Usenet is not social media.
>>>>>> ObDevilsAdvocate: Usenet is the original social medium.
>>>>
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>> And it gives us maximum control over what we see or avoid.  No
>>>> pictures or -- god forbid -- reels, but that's a good thing. The bad
>>>> thing about reels is that they're addictive time-wasters.
>>>>
>>>>> Absolutely. And the centralization introduced by the web-based successors
>>>>> (at least the proprietary ones) is a definite step back.
>>>>
>>>> What bothers me is that otherwise smart people have replaced usenet
>>>> with Facebook.  Maybe X too, but I don't read that even if I have an
>>>> account.   How hard can it be to do all three? The 'social media' make
>>>> actual conversation, as opposed to post-it notes, difficult. I "know"
>>>> the people I've known on usenet since 1995. I've met some of them IRL.
>>>> FB people, unless friends of friends, are unknown strangers, just
>>>> groups of words without names.
>>> That's quite right.  I mean, I don't know anything about FB and the
>>> other, but they're all very much unsusceptible to conversation.  So
>>> they're totally time-wasters.
>>
>> Unfortunately, it's pretty much all we've got now.  Exceptions, of
>> course, but my long-term "friends" don't show up in the newsgroups at
>> all any more.  Not even the loons.
>
> Sometimes we need to wait.  We've done what we could so far.  The USENET
> is still pretty good for conversation with the global community.  I wish
> the experts would come back at least for a little while.  I believe the
> experts come here, find not much and they go away.  I believe many have
> done that.  In comp.lang.lisp, for example, there are more than a few
> experts there, but they only appear sometimes because there's not much
> going on there.
>
> I wrote an NNTP server for a small semi-closed group.  Perhaps the
> openness is not a very good thing anymore.  But I do think people still
> want the all-connected-type of application these days, even at the
> detriment of conversation---which is absurd.  I don't think good
> conversation can be carried out this way.  But an NNTP server, say,
> could have a phone app that's good for reading only.  Have you tried the
> Hacker News apps?  They let you read the comments just fine.  The same
> could be done for an NNTP server, but I never found a decent phone news
> reader.
>
> I think we're doing our part.  If the world has moved on, that's fine.
> I'll continue to use NNTP and perhaps other media that are focused on
> writing and reading.  I don't care for images, sounds, video or whatever
> and I also think that NNTP sort of supports all of that: people here
> often add external URLs on which we download videos, images and whatnot.
>

The highest expert ratio I have generally found on moderated mailinglists. 
I've also detected a few on usenet as well, so they are here, you just 
need to learn how to detect them. ;)

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#25662

D <nospam@example.net> writes:

> The highest expert ratio I have generally found on moderated
> mailinglists.

IMO we just should nudge them to be writable via Gmane/Gwene too.
E.g. I'd sometimes like to reply to TinyCC's ML, but I'm really not in
the mood to subscribe to each ML individually.  Other MLs (Dillo,
Gambit, ...) allow that and having all those side by side to newsgroups
in the same frontend is soooo nice!

> I've also detected a few on usenet as well, so they are here, you just
> need to learn how to detect them. ;)

Use a dowsing rod?  A pendulum?

-- 
1. Hitchhiker 20: (58) "Research.  Government archives.  Detective work.
Few lucky guesses. Easy."

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#25723

On Thu, 29 Aug 2024 09:22:34 +0042, yeti wrote:

>> I've also detected a few on usenet as well, so they are here, you just
>> need to learn how to detect them. ;)
> 
> Use a dowsing rod?  A pendulum?

Simple: just ask an expert on detecting experts.

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