Re: [Poll] Computing favorities

From	"hqhy" <hqhy@nospam.com>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers, comp.misc
Subject	Re: [Poll] Computing favorities
Date	2015-08-25 04:31 +1000
Message-ID	<d41686Fmt3rU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<mr2hv0$rcf$1@dont-email.me> <deqCx.259225$pa5.223923@fx28.am4> <lvuqac-292.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> <d40ahmFfojgU1@mid.individual.net> <adgrac-k63.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message 
news:adgrac-k63.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
> In article <d40ahmFfojgU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Santo Brown <sb8743@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:lvuqac-292.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
>>> In article <deqCx.259225$pa5.223923@fx28.am4>,
>>> Johnny B Good  <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>On Mon, 24 Aug 2015 05:46:23 +1000, Santo Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:d3uhhnF2hsmU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> "Walter Banks" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WRT gates and Jobs
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neither were in the position to force customers to use their 
>>>>>>> product.
>>>>>>> They didn't sell products based on price alone. Sales volume is an
>>>>>>> interesting way to keep score. They both have had products that were
>>>>>>> widely copied. Why do people buy their products then?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remind me which products of Gates was widely copied?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Win UI is widely copied in linux distros.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, every one *except* the right desktop UI (win2k classic). :-(
>>>
>>> For some value of "copy".
>>>
>>> Last I counted there were at least 20 different window
>>> managers for my Linux distros (archlinux, freescale, debian,
>>> ubuntu, raspbian) together, and at least a handful of them
>>> are _very_ extensible and configurable. So, having a few
>>> that strongly resemble windows UI look&feel would not be
>>> out of place.
>>
>>But it clearly is the Win UI look and feel that was copied.

> Which window manager are you talking about?

There is a lot more than one that has a similar look and feel to Win.

> If it is one of the standard ones, not so much. The closest sibling to the
> ubuntu desktop is the SGI one with 4wm; which Windows did
> copy a lot from. But ubuntu gets the real SGI feel, not the
> bowldlerised Windows feel.

Many of the ubuntus are clearly copying the Win look and feel.

> Remember Motif? Around 4 years before Windows did an "embrace
> and extend" of that look&feel? Well, they went on to make
> KDE, which is not my favourite, but I'll choose that one over
> windows any day.

We aren't discussing who copied the most, what was
being discussed was whether anything that Gates was
involved with had ever been copied. Of course the Win
UI look and feel detail was copied quite a bit.

So was the original Basic as well.

> Ditto for all the other wms.  There is a "windows copy" in there
> somewhere, but it is almost never used. The naive windows users
> I have setup workstations for wanted the ubuntu one when they
> could choose.

And that has quite a bit of the look and feel copied from Win.

> The big point with *n*x is that you can CHOOSE. Gnome, KDE,
> old motif, fvwm or even twm and clones. And there are a dozen
> more, it seems every team of grad students must make one of
> these as a rite of passage.

Irrelevant to whether some of the look and feel has been copied from Win.

>>> Remember that the *n*x windowing environment predates both
>>> Linux and Windows by about a decade. (X v6 released in
>>> January 1985), and it is a LOT more stable, configurable
>>> and general than the Windows thingie. Also remember GEM
>>> and the Mac, Atari and Amiga UIs, which Windows has a
>>> lot of debt to.
>>
>>Irrelevant to the Win UI look and feel that was copied.
>
> Exactly who copied whom? The *n*x window managers often
> predate windows by a large part of a decade.

But quite a bit of the look and feel was clearly copied from
some of the Wins.

There were
> also half a dozen very good windowing systems available
> in the decade before Windows came along, and nearly two
> before it became usable for anything but terminal functions
> and games.

Irrelevant to whether some of the look and feel has been copied from Win.

>>> And it has run over the network natively for the duration
>>> of its lifetime, something that is still lacking in Windows.
>>
>>Irrelevant to the Win UI look and feel that was copied.

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[Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-19 14:31 -0400
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities sidd@situ.com (sidd) - 2015-08-19 14:53 -0400
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-19 16:18 -0400
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-08-19 22:06 +0000
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-19 16:17 -0400
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-19 20:23 +0000
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-19 17:19 -0400
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-08-20 07:07 +0000
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities mausg@mail.com - 2015-08-20 08:06 +0000
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2015-08-20 15:23 +0000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-20 18:00 +0100
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-08-20 15:51 -0500
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities     wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-08-20 14:08 -0700
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-20 18:15 -0400
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities John Levine <johnl@iecc.com> - 2015-08-20 17:41 +0000
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-20 00:40 +0100
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-08-19 22:06 +0000
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2015-08-19 21:29 +0100
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2015-08-20 11:17 +0100
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities hankvc@blackhole.lostwells.org (Hank) - 2015-08-22 21:48 +0000
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-19 17:08 -0400
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-19 17:24 -0400
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-08-19 22:04 +0000
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) - 2015-08-25 13:07 +0000
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-08-20 15:56 -0500
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-20 18:18 -0400
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2015-08-20 23:21 +0000
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities lawrence@cluon.com - 2015-08-21 02:02 +0200
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities     wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-08-19 14:28 -0700
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-08-19 22:00 +0000
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Chris F.A. Johnson" <cfajohnson@cfaj.ca> - 2015-08-19 18:11 -0400
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-19 18:33 -0400
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.pssw.com.invalid> - 2015-08-19 22:33 -0600
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-08-20 11:44 -0700
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2015-08-20 19:15 -0400
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-23 09:17 -0400
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-23 16:39 +0000
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-23 13:49 -0400
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2015-08-23 13:25 -0500
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-23 15:21 -0400
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 05:46 +1000
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Johnny B Good <johnny-b-good@invalid.ntlworld.com> - 2015-08-23 20:41 +0000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-08-24 09:50 +0200
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 20:38 +1000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-08-24 14:48 +0200
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-24 13:20 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-08-24 14:04 +0100
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities lawrence@cluon.com - 2015-08-24 17:33 +0200
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "hqhy" <hqhy@nospam.com> - 2015-08-25 04:31 +1000
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-23 21:19 +0000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 07:52 +1000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-24 09:19 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 20:44 +1000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-08-24 19:16 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-24 20:43 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 08:37 +1000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Mike Causer <m.r.causer@goglemail.com> - 2015-08-27 20:45 +0100
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2015-08-24 05:24 +0000
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-23 18:47 +0000
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-23 15:16 -0400
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-23 17:18 -0400
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-23 21:20 +0000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-23 17:31 -0400
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-08-24 09:55 +0200
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 07:53 +1000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-24 09:18 +0000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-24 01:17 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2015-08-24 10:28 +0200
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2015-08-24 12:40 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-24 13:18 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 04:34 +1000
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-23 22:39 +0100
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-24 09:16 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2015-08-24 10:34 +0100
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-08-24 14:09 +0100
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-24 14:52 +0100
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2015-08-24 16:41 +0100
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-08-24 19:29 +0100
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities     wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-08-24 15:32 -0700
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Andy Burns <usenet.feb2014@adslpipe.co.uk> - 2015-08-25 07:16 +0100
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-24 07:29 -0400
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-24 13:20 +0000
                Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-24 12:10 -0400
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-24 00:06 +0100
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 13:02 +1000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Walter Banks <walter@bytecraft.com> - 2015-08-23 23:35 -0400
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-23 15:27 -0400
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-24 01:17 +0000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 13:10 +1000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-08-24 16:28 -0500
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2015-08-24 16:27 -0500
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 05:48 +1000
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-08-23 21:32 +0000
              Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Santo Brown" <sb8743@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 07:57 +1000
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2015-08-24 00:00 +0100
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-23 21:18 +0000
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-08-23 11:31 -0700
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-08-23 12:08 -0700
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-08-24 08:22 -0700
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2015-08-24 19:29 +0000
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-24 18:37 -0400
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-24 18:38 -0400
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities     wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-08-24 15:54 -0700
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "Bill Cunningham" <nospan@nspam.invalid> - 2015-08-24 18:41 -0400
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities "hqhy" <hqhy@nospam.com> - 2015-08-25 08:47 +1000
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2015-08-24 16:25 -0700
  Re: [Poll] Computing favorities fmassei@gmail.com - 2015-08-24 13:29 -0700
    Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-08-24 20:44 +0000
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Larry Sheldon <lfsheldon@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 16:28 -0500
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities     wje@acm.org (Bill Evans) - 2015-08-24 15:49 -0700
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Larry Sheldon <lfsheldon@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 18:16 -0500
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Larry Sheldon <lfsheldon@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 18:41 -0500
      Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-08-24 23:14 +0000
        Re: [Poll] Computing favorities fmassei@gmail.com - 2015-08-25 02:40 -0700
          Re: [Poll] Computing favorities Bob Eager <news0005@eager.cx> - 2015-08-25 11:26 +0000
            Re: [Poll] Computing favorities fmassei@gmail.com - 2015-08-26 10:20 -0700

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