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Chrome for Android does not support JAVA

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  Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2012-02-15 20:50 +0800
    Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 09:57 -0800
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-15 17:13 -0700
    Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-15 19:21 -0500
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-02-15 18:37 -0700
    Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Rajiv Gupta <rajiv@invalid.com> - 2012-02-16 13:21 +1100
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-16 21:23 -0500
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Rajiv Gupta <rajiv@invalid.com> - 2012-02-17 21:52 +1100
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 10:22 -0800
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 21:49 -0500
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Fredrik Jonson <fredrik@jonson.org> - 2012-02-17 18:53 +0000
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Jeff Higgins <jeff@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-17 15:38 -0500
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-17 21:36 -0500
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Jan Burse <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2012-02-17 21:53 +0100
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2012-04-01 12:36 +0800
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-01 07:33 -0700
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2012-04-16 21:07 +0800
            Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-16 14:22 -0700
              Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2012-04-17 06:36 +0800
                Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-16 19:59 -0400
                  Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-16 22:18 -0300
                    Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-16 21:53 -0400
    Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2012-04-01 13:39 -0500
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> - 2012-04-01 13:50 -0700
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2012-04-01 17:28 -0500
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> - 2012-04-01 17:14 -0700
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-01 20:16 -0400
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-01 21:40 -0300
            Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> - 2012-04-01 19:00 -0700
              Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Silvio Bierman <silvio@moc.com> - 2012-04-02 10:45 +0200
            Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-01 22:19 -0400
              Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-02 07:09 -0300
                Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-02 20:02 -0400
                  Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-02 20:41 -0700
                  Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Nasser M. Abbasi" <nma@12000.org> - 2012-04-02 22:42 -0500
                    Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-03 08:13 -0700
                      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-04-03 09:46 -0700
                        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-03 19:42 -0400
                    Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-03 19:35 -0400
                      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-03 17:04 -0700
                      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2012-04-04 03:36 +0000
                        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-04 19:35 -0400
                      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-04-04 18:42 +0000
                      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2012-04-04 18:42 +0000
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-01 20:20 -0400
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2012-04-02 20:25 +0800
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Thufir <hawat.thufir@gmail.com> - 2012-04-02 08:44 -0700
            Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2012-04-03 03:03 +0800
          Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-02 20:04 -0400
            Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA "Richard Maher" <maher_rj@hotspamnotmail.com> - 2012-04-09 08:49 +0800
      Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-01 22:49 -0700
        Re: Chrome for Android does not support JAVA Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-02 19:55 -0400

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#12027 — Chrome for Android does not support JAVA

Hi,

Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not support 
JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?

I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?

Cheers Richard Maher 

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#12037

On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:50:04 AM UTC-8, Richard Maher wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not support 
> JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
> 
> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?

Google is big on Java (but not "JAVA"), and Android code is often in Java (but 
not "JAVA"). That doesn't mean the browser should support applets.

And support for Flash is up to neither Google nor Java.

Why in the world should anyone be "gutted" (whatever the heck that means) about 
this? Write to Adobe for your Flash concern and the browser maker (who isn't 
Google, BTW), with your complaint. Whining here won't help.

Do try to complain to the right people. Google and Oracle won't be the right 
people.

Neither are we.

-- 
Lew

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#12043

On 2/15/2012 10:57 AM, Lew wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:50:04 AM UTC-8, Richard Maher wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not support
>> JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
>>
>> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?
>
> Google is big on Java (but not "JAVA"), and Android code is often in Java (but
> not "JAVA"). That doesn't mean the browser should support applets.
>

and maybe it wouldn't really help matters much that Android uses a 
specialized VM (rather than a more typical JVM).

the language in use doesn't matter much for applets, if the underlying 
VM isn't using Java ByteCode. one would need a VM which also has support 
for both JBC and a class-loader, or alternatively such a VM would need 
to be available (on the system and is usable by the browser).


> And support for Flash is up to neither Google nor Java.
>

well, Google may be involved, but so is Adobe.

(checking, apparently, Flash is already available for Android).


a bigger problem though with Flash may be the reasonably low stats of 
typical Android devices (vs say, a desktop PC, or a laptop). it is 
possible that, even if Flash does work, it wouldn't necessarily be a 
pretty experience (poor performance, steep memory use, ...).


> Why in the world should anyone be "gutted" (whatever the heck that means) about
> this? Write to Adobe for your Flash concern and the browser maker (who isn't
> Google, BTW), with your complaint. Whining here won't help.
>

maybe he means the sensation of being physically disemboweled?... (or, 
conversely, the sensation of being kicked or kneed in the same general 
area, which is considerably less lethal, but also considerably 
unpleasant?...).


the Browser in question is Chrome, which I am pretty sure is a Google 
product (Wikipedia seems to agree here).

now, if it were Opera or Firefox or something, then it would make sense 
to contact them (as they are not Google).

however, even then, it would also be up to Adobe (and others, such as 
the device manufacturers, ...) as to whether or not they wanted to make 
it available (actually, given how it works, the mobile service carriers 
may also be involved, as apparently in Android land it is the 
vendor+carrier which has most of the say regarding what system-level 
software is available).


ultimately, it may be moot if the devices are technically underpowered 
for this (Flash doesn't perform well on an ASUS EEE either, which has 
much higher stats than most Android devices).

what makes Android smooth and responsive is not really about having high 
stats, but rather about making the system fairly minimalist and 
streamlined. the downside though is that technologies tuned for more 
powerful systems, are not likely to work very well.

the issue is not that typical Flash applications are particularly 
high-end or advanced, but rather that many Flash apps aren't really 
written for efficiency.


conversely: doing impressive-looking things on a PC (delivering a 
compelling user experience, especially for real-time interactive 
software like 3D games or similar) does require some amount of concern 
for things like optimization and similar (and it would be very difficult 
to deliver a similar level of quality-of-experience on something like a 
mobile device).

but, how much is concern is relevant and where itself may depend highly 
on the particular application and use-case (like, how and where to 
invest optimizations, and which sorts of properties to optimize for, ...).


> Do try to complain to the right people. Google and Oracle won't be the right
> people.
>
> Neither are we.
>

probably true enough...

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#12044

On 2/15/2012 7:50 AM, Richard Maher wrote:
> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not support
> JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
>
> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?

All the high level stuff in Android is done in Java.

But Android does not support applets.

Neither does any of other new mobile platforms (iOS, WP etc.).

Flash should be available on Android but not on iOS.

For mobile web you should use HTML5 and JavaScript.

Arne

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#12051

On 2/15/2012 5:21 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 2/15/2012 7:50 AM, Richard Maher wrote:
>> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not support
>> JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
>>
>> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?
>
> All the high level stuff in Android is done in Java.
>

(yes, albeit via a different VM, namely, Dalvik).


> But Android does not support applets.
>
> Neither does any of other new mobile platforms (iOS, WP etc.).
>

yep.
theoretically, one "could" support applets, by supplying a JVM capable 
of applets, and having the browser be able to use it. worse yet, for 
this type of software, AFAIK, given how the system works, and absent 
vendor and carrier support, one could essentially need to "root" their 
device to install it (if it were to exist as a piece of system software, 
rather than an APK or similar). granted, it is possible I guess that a 
JVM could be supplied as an APK (AFAICT it is possible for APKs to 
behave as libraries, and be linked to by other APKs).

whether all this would be "worthwhile" is a different issue.


> Flash should be available on Android but not on iOS.
>

yep.

for many Flash apps though, the performance and user experience would be 
debatable. things like YouTube and similar should probably work ok (I 
have an Android tablet which can access YouTube ok, albeit with the 
"mobile" layout funkiness). likewise, YouTube and similar don't do much 
processor intensive in Flash, since the main expensive parts (A/V codecs 
and playback stuff) are handled by native code.

but, I distrust Flash some, as it is one of those things capable of 
causing lag even to a browser on a typical PC (and one ends up 
installing "Adblock Plus" and similar, not so much out of a particular 
dislike of advertising, but rather to avoid the *severe lag* often 
caused by all the Flash-based banner adds...).


not that some of those "laggy as hell" Flash-based games give much hope 
either. some of them are barely playable as-is on a desktop PC, more so 
that my PC has a CPU 3x-4x faster with 4x as many cores, and 16x or 32x 
more RAM than a typical Android device (I have 16GB of RAM, vs 512MB or 
1GB which is AFAIK common on many newer mobile devices).

one can avoid being deceived: a slick and responsive UI does not mean 
there is a lot of raw power behind it.


so, I guess a question is why one wants Flash:
for things like YouTube;
or, for something like Newgrounds.


> For mobile web you should use HTML5 and JavaScript.
>

probably a fair statement.

granted, I haven't done much related to web-apps personally.



mild tangent follows (ignore if not interested or if it seems irrelevant):

ironically though, both JavaScript and ActionScript (Flash) are 
significant influences on my own scripting language (at its core, it is 
basically the same language, and also more-or-less implements ECMA-262). 
however, there are significant differences WRT library features and the 
semantics for extended features.

the major difference is what it runs on: my 3D engine is not a 
web-browser, even if it has some similar features, makes some use of 
XML, has an HTTP client (and server), ... (trivia: I had before 
considered some possibly "interesting" uses for HTTP in relation to 
online gaming).

I before considered the possibility of an Android port, but there were 
some non-trivial issues: getting it down to a more "sane" memory 
footprint, dealing with non-trivial UI issues (my stuff is very much 
designed for a mouse+keyboard interface, and one essentially has to 
"re-think" many aspects of UI design to make it usable on a 
touch-screen), ...

(nevermind that it looks like building both for the PC and Android with 
the same app and the same codebase also looks non-trivial, and one is 
almost better off "starting clean" if trying to target an app to Android).

one may take it for granted when developing PC software that one has 
around 3GB freely usable for a single 32-bit process (actually, the 
"unusable" 1GB has use as well). (by "freely usable", I mean, on modern 
HW one can use all of it without necessarily causing lag or HDD 
thrashing). yes, 64-bit is "better" (no 3GB limit), just for now I am 
still building mostly for 32-bits until 32-bit Windows is more solidly 
"dead and gone".

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#12052

On 2012-02-15 23:50:04 +1100, Richard Maher said:

> Hi,
> 
> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not 
> support JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
> 
> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?
> 
> Cheers Richard Maher

Android uses the Dalvik VM, ostensibly to take advantage of the CPU 
architectures of the devices commonly used in mobile devices.  For 
Google it also provides a convient firewall to keep out unwanted code 
from their eco system.

Flash is no longer necessary since HTML5.  Flash is unwanted anyway as 
it offers some pernicious features for marketers (and others) to track 
users using Flash cookies. I say good riddence to Flash.

The same goes for Java Applets.  It has been a long time since applets 
have been useful. I recommend that people disable Java in their 
browsers. It is just a security risk and a way to waste memory.  HTML  
canvas and websockets and JS can do anything that you could do in Java 
in a browser. Applets are a dying technology and the sooner they kick 
the bucket the better for everyone.

As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding 
Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as 
they can.

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#12099

On 2/15/2012 9:21 PM, Rajiv Gupta wrote:
> On 2012-02-15 23:50:04 +1100, Richard Maher said:
>> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not
>> support JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
>>
>> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?
>
> Android uses the Dalvik VM, ostensibly to take advantage of the CPU
> architectures of the devices commonly used in mobile devices. For Google
> it also provides a convient firewall to keep out unwanted code from
> their eco system.

Given that they provide free tools to generate code for Dalvik, then
they do not really keep anyone out.

> Flash is no longer necessary since HTML5.

If you can live with 30% of web users not seeing your stuff.

> The same goes for Java Applets. It has been a long time since applets
> have been useful. I recommend that people disable Java in their
> browsers. It is just a security risk and a way to waste memory.

????

On a page that does not use applets, then Java will not be running and
therefor not e using memory.

On a page that does use applets, then Java will consume memory but also
be needed.

So I do not understand that advice.

>                                                               HTML
> canvas and websockets and JS can do anything that you could do in Java
> in a browser.

For web then Java applets is still more widely supported than HTML5.

> As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding
> Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as
> they can.

That problem is solvable:
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat

Arne

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#12119

On 2012-02-17 13:23:25 +1100, Arne Vajhøj said:

> On 2/15/2012 9:21 PM, Rajiv Gupta wrote:
>> On 2012-02-15 23:50:04 +1100, Richard Maher said:
>>> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not
>>> support JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
>>> 
>>> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?
>> 
>> Android uses the Dalvik VM, ostensibly to take advantage of the CPU
>> architectures of the devices commonly used in mobile devices. For Google
>> it also provides a convient firewall to keep out unwanted code from
>> their eco system.
> 
> Given that they provide free tools to generate code for Dalvik, then
> they do not really keep anyone out.

It is still a barrier.

> 
>> Flash is no longer necessary since HTML5.
> 
> If you can live with 30% of web users not seeing your stuff.

The situation is rapidly changing. Adobe have acknowledged it 
themselves as they have stopped developing Flash for mobile devices.

> 
>> The same goes for Java Applets. It has been a long time since applets
>> have been useful. I recommend that people disable Java in their
>> browsers. It is just a security risk and a way to waste memory.
> 
> ????
> 
> On a page that does not use applets, then Java will not be running and
> therefor not e using memory.

> 
> On a page that does use applets, then Java will consume memory but also
> be needed.
> 
> So I do not understand that advice.

Are you retarded or just a pedant?   By disabling Java in the browser, 
you will prevent the browser from running applets.

> 
>> HTML
>> canvas and websockets and JS can do anything that you could do in Java
>> in a browser.
> 
> For web then Java applets is still more widely supported than HTML5.

For any new developments you would be an imbecile to choose deploying 
an applet.  The browser that has the most rapidly increasing market 
share (Chrome) does not even bother to support it.


> 
>> As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding
>> Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as
>> they can.
> 
> That problem is solvable:
>    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat
> 
> Arne

Google's main business is to collect information about people in order 
to profit from it by advertising or selling the information in some 
form.  This is not a paranoid delusional statement.    In some 
jurisdictions their activities border on criminal. For example, forging 
emails from registered users which state that user "XXX" has invited 
you to join Google+.   In fact an official complaint has been made to a 
member of parlaiment in my jurisdiction asking for the federal police 
to investigate these mass forging of emails because forging of emails 
is an offence.

Android phones (unless rooted or registered with Google) continually 
display a full screen dialog which nags the user to create an account. 
This page interferes with the operation of the phone since it will 
appear at any time. If the hapless user eventually succumbs and creates 
an account Google will upload the user's contacts database to their 
system.  You would be naive if you believed Google would not be 
building a graph from those contacts.

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#12128

Rajiv Gupta wrote:
> Are you retarded or just a pedant? 

You're retarded.

You don't get to call him "retarded" just because he made a point for which you 
have no valid answer. 

Troll.

-- 
Lew

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#12158

On 2/17/2012 5:52 AM, Rajiv Gupta wrote:
> On 2012-02-17 13:23:25 +1100, Arne Vajhøj said:
>> On 2/15/2012 9:21 PM, Rajiv Gupta wrote:
>>> On 2012-02-15 23:50:04 +1100, Richard Maher said:
>>>> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not
>>>> support JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
>>>>
>>>> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?
>>>
>>> Android uses the Dalvik VM, ostensibly to take advantage of the CPU
>>> architectures of the devices commonly used in mobile devices. For Google
>>> it also provides a convient firewall to keep out unwanted code from
>>> their eco system.
>>
>> Given that they provide free tools to generate code for Dalvik, then
>> they do not really keep anyone out.
>
> It is still a barrier.

Without any noticeable effect.

>>> Flash is no longer necessary since HTML5.
>>
>> If you can live with 30% of web users not seeing your stuff.
>
> The situation is rapidly changing.

Not really. A large portion of users do not update their
browsers when a new major version come out.

>                       Adobe have acknowledged it themselves
> as they have stopped developing Flash for mobile devices.

Adobe has acknowledged that Flash on mobile is a dead end.

But there are still a few people left that use PC's to
browse the web.

>>> The same goes for Java Applets. It has been a long time since applets
>>> have been useful. I recommend that people disable Java in their
>>> browsers. It is just a security risk and a way to waste memory.
>>
>> ????
>>
>> On a page that does not use applets, then Java will not be running and
>> therefor not e using memory.
>>
>> On a page that does use applets, then Java will consume memory but also
>> be needed.
>>
>> So I do not understand that advice.
>
> Are you retarded or just a pedant? By disabling Java in the browser, you
> will prevent the browser from running applets.

If you delete the browser you will save even more memory.

There is not much point in saving memory by disabling functionality
that you want.

>>> HTML
>>> canvas and websockets and JS can do anything that you could do in Java
>>> in a browser.
>>
>> For web then Java applets is still more widely supported than HTML5.
>
> For any new developments you would be an imbecile to choose deploying an
> applet.

Imbecile preferring bigger market share? I don't think so!

>            The browser that has the most rapidly increasing market share
> (Chrome) does not even bother to support it.

Have you considered investigating these matters a bit?

Applets is supported in Chrome since Java 6u12.

>>> As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding
>>> Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as
>>> they can.
>>
>> That problem is solvable:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_foil_hat
>
> Google's main business is to collect information about people in order
> to profit from it by advertising or selling the information in some
> form. This is not a paranoid delusional statement. In some jurisdictions
> their activities border on criminal. For example, forging emails from
> registered users which state that user "XXX" has invited you to join
> Google+. In fact an official complaint has been made to a member of
> parlaiment in my jurisdiction asking for the federal police to
> investigate these mass forging of emails because forging of emails is an
> offence.

The fact that a person write the parliament and ask them to
investigate something does not make it illegal or immoral.

Arne

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#12130

In <jhhp7k$sum$1@speranza.aioe.org> Rajiv Gupta wrote:

>  Android uses the Dalvik VM, ostensibly to take advantage of the CPU
>  architectures of the devices commonly used in mobile devices.  For
>  Google it also provides a convient firewall to keep out unwanted code
>  from their eco system.

Dalvik a firewall? Do you mean that was a oringinal goal or more like a
selling point after the fact?

My interpretation is that apart from performance, the dalvik vm was a
convenient way to work around some software patents on the JVM that Google
or android.com wouldn't be bothered to, didn't, or couldn't manage to
negotiate licensing for from Sun.

Besides, today you can deploy C, C++, python, ruby, Perl, JRuby, Lua,
BeanShell, JavaScript, Tcl, shell, scala, and Java source code in one way or
another on Android devices. So if dalvik was intended to be a firewall, I
wonder in what sense? The only thing I haven't heard of yet is true Java
byte code execution on a true JVM on Android. In theory it could be done
using the OpenJDK ARM port i guess.

Not so sure why a "true" JVM on the Android would be a priority though? I
find that with a rather small effort my source code can easily pass between
my Android app projects and my Java EE projects. My experience is that
Android in some sense is surprisingly true to the original WORA promise of
Java.

>  As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding
>  Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as
>  they can.

Cyanogenmod is your friend. Available for many Android devices and wont tell
Google about your existence if you don't ask it to.

Anyway, comparing with the popular alternatives Android is for sure the
lesser of evils on the mobile device market.

Oh, and on topic: I wont miss flash on my Android phone.

--
Fredrik Jonson

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#12138

On 02/17/2012 01:53 PM, Fredrik Jonson wrote:
> In<jhhp7k$sum$1@speranza.aioe.org>  Rajiv Gupta wrote:
>
>>   As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding
>>   Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as
>>   they can.
>
> Cyanogenmod is your friend. Available for many Android devices and wont tell
> Google about your existence if you don't ask it to.
>
Hm. "incognito browsing mode" better than a tinfoil hat?

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#12157

On 2/17/2012 3:38 PM, Jeff Higgins wrote:
> On 02/17/2012 01:53 PM, Fredrik Jonson wrote:
>> In<jhhp7k$sum$1@speranza.aioe.org> Rajiv Gupta wrote:
>>
>>> As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding
>>> Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as
>>> they can.
>>
>> Cyanogenmod is your friend. Available for many Android devices and
>> wont tell
>> Google about your existence if you don't ask it to.
>>
> Hm. "incognito browsing mode" better than a tinfoil hat?

Probably.

:-)

Arne

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#12139

Fredrik Jonson schrieb:
> Dalvik a firewall? Do you mean that was a oringinal goal or more like a
> selling point after the fact?

http://developer.android.com/reference/java/lang/SecurityManager.html
Security managers do not provide a secure environment for executing 
untrusted code. Untrusted code cannot be safely isolated within the 
Dalvik VM.

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#13283

"Rajiv Gupta" <rajiv@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:jhhp7k$sum$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> On 2012-02-15 23:50:04 +1100, Richard Maher said:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is anyone else gutted that the Chrome browser on Android will not support
>> JAVA, Flash or any other pluggin?
>>
>> I thought Google and Android were big on JAVA?
>>
>> Cheers Richard Maher
>

>
> Flash is no longer necessary since HTML5.

Choice and competition are often good things, as is supporting a client base 
that isn't that keen to be on the bleading edge. Leaving video aside, I 
still haven't seen a charting tool that can match what can be achieved with 
Flex charting.

> Flash is unwanted anyway

Seems pretty popular to me.

> as it
> offers some pernicious features for marketers (and others) to track users
> using Flash cookies.

With iOS giving everyone access to your contacts and address book let alone 
what sites like Facebook get up to, I see no reason to highlight Flash 
cookies. Also, given that Web-Sockets have been firstly removed from HTML5 
then disabled everywhere (except maybe Chrome) due to security flaws, I 
believe your smugness to be unjustified.

> I say good riddence to Flash.

With the cartel of Apple, Google, and Microsoft ganging up to destroy it, 
there doesn't appear to be any other course of action.

>
> The same goes for Java Applets.  It has been a long time since applets
> have been useful.

Bollocks!

While the pixel footprint of modern Applets may be reduced to zero, their 
usefulness continues unabated. Nothing else on the planet can provide the 
awesome, yet sandboxed, power of an unsigned Java Applet! Multi-tab, 
multi-threaded power and functionality only dreamt of by today's 
long-polling, Javascript, hacks. (I note you diddn't mention HTML5 
"worker-threads"; too embarassing for even you to gloat over?)

> I recommend that people disable Java in their browsers.

I'm sure your blog is just clocking up those clicks as we speak.

> It is just a security risk and a way to waste memory.

Yet I'm willing to wager that in the same breath you're a big jQuery 
cargo-cult fan.

> HTML  canvas and
> websockets and JS can do anything that you could do in Java in a browser.

Anyone who thinks WebSockets implemented over HTTP can come anywhere close 
to providing the full-blown functionality of a native TCP/IP or UDP socket 
is either in denial or just plain ignorant.

> Applets are a dying technology and the sooner they kick the bucket the
> better for everyone.

Certainly better for every supplier except Oracle. And all those developers 
who like more than one tool in the toolbox.
>
> As for Android. It is in my opinion a fiendishly clever honeypot aiding
> Google in collecting the identities of as many people in the world as they
> can.

Just another Apple fanbois?

>
>

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#13284

There is a trick to it.  See
http://mindprod.com/jgloss/googlechrome.html
-- 
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com
When you were a child, if you did your own experiment
to see if it was better to put to cocoa into your cup first
or the hot milk first, then you likely have the programmer gene..

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#13577

"Roedy Green" <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> wrote in message 
news:oopgn7h2qafeavfah27guc23lacpmd84vl@4ax.com...
> There is a trick to it.  See
> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/googlechrome.html
> -- 

Hi Roedy,

Thanks for your response on this (and other issues over the years).

My issue maybe as simple as jumping the gun on Java7. I thought it has been 
mainstream for yonks but it looks like it's still beta; is that correct?

I have a box running 1.7.0-03b05 plugin 10.3.0.5 and *everything* is peachy! 
But 1.7.0-b147 plugin 10.0.0.147 and I get the "Chrome says you're running 
crap click here for once only" message :-(

I am *VERY* excited about having worked around the bug in: - 
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=7001755 (basically 
replace the "rendezvous()" call with a return value) and need to rule out 
this version crap.

Should I remove 1.7 altogether? Why does Chrome not see 1.7 and still 
complain about 6.31 even though it's still there? Why do I get that sick 
page error?

Ok, in a nutshell, "Is Java 7 off the table for the time-being?" or 
"1.7.0-03b05 is the mutt's nutz! This is the candidate release and why 
you're getting such good results - bet the farm on it!"

Firefox, IE8, Opera, Chrome, and Safari are *ALL* on board with this on 
platform X; why is it magic? (Same Chrome, IE, FF. Safari and Opera 
versions; it certainly appears to be a dicky JRE?)

Cheers Richard Maher 

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#13597

Richard Maher wrote:
> My issue maybe as simple as jumping the gun on Java7. I thought it has been 
> mainstream for yonks but it looks like it's still beta; is that correct?

No. Java 7 was released on 2011-07-07.

You can tell it's not beta by the verbiage at
<http://docs.oracle.com/javase/>
"Java SE 7 is the current release of the Java SE platform."

> I have a box running 1.7.0-03b05 plugin 10.3.0.5 and *everything* is peachy! 
> But 1.7.0-b147 plugin 10.0.0.147 and I get the "Chrome says you're running 
> crap click here for once only" message :-(

Java 7 update 3 is what's current.

> I am *VERY* excited about having worked around the bug in: - 
> http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=7001755 (basically 
> replace the "rendezvous()" call with a return value) and need to rule out 
> this version crap.
> 
> Should I remove 1.7 altogether? Why does Chrome not see 1.7 and still 
> complain about 6.31 even though it's still there? Why do I get that sick 
> page error?

Don't know the answers, but if Java 6u31 is still there, that could explain why Chrome is looking for it.

> Ok, in a nutshell, "Is Java 7 off the table for the time-being?" or 
> "1.7.0-03b05 is the mutt's nutz! This is the candidate release and why 
> you're getting such good results - bet the farm on it!"

Java 7u3 is not a candidate release.

> Firefox, IE8, Opera, Chrome, and Safari are *ALL* on board with this on 
> platform X; why is it magic? (Same Chrome, IE, FF. Safari and Opera 
> versions; it certainly appears to be a dicky JRE?)

-- 
Lew

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#13598

"Lew" <lewbloch@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:16106106.159.1334611367345.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcsi9...
> Richard Maher wrote:
>> My issue maybe as simple as jumping the gun on Java7. I thought it has 
>> been
>> mainstream for yonks but it looks like it's still beta; is that correct?
>
> No. Java 7 was released on 2011-07-07.

Sounds more like it. I came across 
http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/java7.xml and seeing Google pushing 6.31 
I got confused.
>
> You can tell it's not beta by the verbiage at
> <http://docs.oracle.com/javase/>
> "Java SE 7 is the current release of the Java SE platform."

Thanks.
>
>> I have a box running 1.7.0-03b05 plugin 10.3.0.5 and *everything* is 
>> peachy!
>> But 1.7.0-b147 plugin 10.0.0.147 and I get the "Chrome says you're 
>> running
>> crap click here for once only" message :-(
>
> Java 7 update 3 is what's current.

Thanks again.
>
>> I am *VERY* excited about having worked around the bug in: -
>> http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=7001755 (basically
>> replace the "rendezvous()" call with a return value) and need to rule out
>> this version crap.
>>
>> Should I remove 1.7 altogether? Why does Chrome not see 1.7 and still
>> complain about 6.31 even though it's still there? Why do I get that sick
>> page error?
>
> Don't know the answers, but if Java 6u31 is still there, that could 
> explain why Chrome is looking for it.

Yeah looks like I had a sick installation of Chrome (even its own cache 
clearing page choked) an I had 6.31 enabled for a while with a disabled 7.0 
and, anyway, re-installed Chrome, set 7 on and 6.31 off and it now seems to 
work.

>
>> Ok, in a nutshell, "Is Java 7 off the table for the time-being?" or
>> "1.7.0-03b05 is the mutt's nutz! This is the candidate release and why
>> you're getting such good results - bet the farm on it!"
>
> Java 7u3 is not a candidate release.
>
>> Firefox, IE8, Opera, Chrome, and Safari are *ALL* on board with this on
>> platform X; why is it magic? (Same Chrome, IE, FF. Safari and Opera
>> versions; it certainly appears to be a dicky JRE?)

Now (maybe also for a while) I'm getting "The Java plug-in needs your 
permission to run" :-(
http://support.google.com/chrome/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1247383

I like Google less and less (now with two GoogleUpdate jobs running and 
GoogleToolBarNotifier and who knows what else) 

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#13600

On 4/16/2012 6:36 PM, Richard Maher wrote:
> "Lew"<lewbloch@gmail.com>  wrote in message
> news:16106106.159.1334611367345.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcsi9...
>> Richard Maher wrote:
>>> My issue maybe as simple as jumping the gun on Java7. I thought it has
>>> been
>>> mainstream for yonks but it looks like it's still beta; is that correct?
>>
>> No. Java 7 was released on 2011-07-07.
>
> Sounds more like it. I came across
> http://www.java.com/en/download/faq/java7.xml and seeing Google pushing 6.31
> I got confused.

Java 6 is still being updated.

And there are probably still more on Java 6 than on Java 7.

Arne

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