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Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT)

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On 06/03/2012 01:42 PM, BGB wrote:
> On 6/3/2012 2:13 PM, Lew wrote:
>> BGB wrote:
>>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> If you with VB means VB.NET then you are absolutely correct.
>>>>
>>>> VB.NET is C# with VB syntax and C# is close to a superset of Java.
>>>
>>> generally, yes.
>>>
>>> but, a person could try to argue that they are "totally different", say
>>> because of using "namespace" and "using" rather than "package" and
>>> "import",
>>> and ":" in class definitions instead of "extends" and "implements", ...
>>>
>>> however, these are likely minor differences (many are primarily
>>> cosmetic, and
>>> some others could conceivably be made to work on the JVM as well).
>>
>> "namespace" and "using" are significantly different from 'package' and
>> 'import' in semantics.
>>
>
> well, hence the comment "some others could be made to work on the JVM":
> unlike the differences in class syntax, "namespace" and "using" also differ
> some in terms of how they work, so would be a little harder to fit onto the
> JVM as it exists, but could probably be done via a little compiler trickery.
>
> the main difference would likely be the potential loss of a 1:1 mapping
> between source-files and output class files.

You cannot lose what doesn't exist to start with. Source files in the usual 
Java implementation (i.e., one that uses files) have a 1-to-many relationship 
with classes (and therefore with class files in file-based implementations). 
This applies for both nested classes and top-level classes. (In a certain very 
loose sense, an inner class exists separately for each instance of its 
containing class.)

> I am not really intending to argue here about how similar or different
> "namespace" and "using" are from "package" and "import" though.

There's no room for argument. They are exactly as similar and different as 
they are. The degree of similarity and difference is objectively verifiable, 
as the terms are publicly and transparently defined.

I took exception to your characterization of the differences between keywords 
"namespace" and 'package' and between "using" (the statement, not the 
directive) and 'import' as "likely minor". Definitions of "minor" vary, but in 
my world, "nearly completely different" is not minor. (To be fair, the C# 
"using" directive is rather similar to the Java 'import', but the "using" 
statement is quite different. The "using" statement is similar to Java's new 
try-with-resources.)

There is no doubt that "namespace" and "using" could be made to work on the 
JVM, for a language that uses those constructs. Java might move in the 
"namespace" direction itself with the proposed module semantics. As for 
"using", I don't see that coming to Java soon, but maybe. It might even be 
part of modules, too; I haven't read up on those yet. (I don't see anything 
recent coming out of this effort.)

<http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/exceptions/tryResourceClose.html>
<http://openjdk.java.net/projects/modules/>

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-02 10:39 -0400
  Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-02 10:40 -0400
    Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-02 09:41 -0700
      Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-06-03 00:44 -0700
        Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-03 09:18 -0400
      Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-03 09:15 -0400
        Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-03 13:50 -0500
        Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-06-03 19:29 -0700
          Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-16 23:35 -0400
            Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-16 23:29 -0700
              Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-17 18:33 -0400
  Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-03 13:26 -0500
    Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-03 12:13 -0700
      Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-03 15:42 -0500
        Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-03 14:23 -0700
          Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-03 14:25 -0700
          Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-05 09:22 -0500
            Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-06-05 09:54 -0700
      Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-16 23:34 -0400
        Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) "Mike Schilling" <mscottschilling@hotmail.com> - 2012-06-24 17:02 -0700
          Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-06-24 23:09 -0700
    Re: eerie Java-BASIC (partially OT) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-06-16 23:30 -0400

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