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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #8883

Re: Ubunto

From Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: Ubunto
Date 2011-10-17 00:29 +0000
Organization UK Free Software Network
Message-ID <j7fssv$19j$2@localhost.localdomain> (permalink)
References <op8e97ptf2knv5f325qb2vrkb6sph1nfh0@4ax.com> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1110141420290.15658@urchin.earth.li> <unpj975lsksrev5fibuepke9ar85vit9ia@4ax.com> <j7dagn$bgh$4@localhost.localdomain> <alpine.DEB.2.00.1110162344190.27716@urchin.earth.li>

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On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 00:31:05 +0100, Tom Anderson wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Oct 2011, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:04:16 -0700, Roedy Green wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Oct 2011 14:20:40 +0100, Tom Anderson
>>> <twic@urchin.earth.li>
>>> wrote, quoted or indirectly quoted someone who said :
>>>
>>>> That Fedora is much better.
>>>
>>> In there anything you would want to tell programmers thinking of
>>> developing Java on Fedora?
>>> http://mindprod.com/jgloss/redhat.html is an entry a bit long in the
>>> tooth.
> 
> Just a bit!
> 
>> It just works.
> 
> That is just about true, but i think it's glossing over some facts worth
> knowing.
>
Sure. Short Answer!
 
> 1. The default Java is OpenJava. I *think* a standard install does not
> include it,
>
That's most likely true, but I haven't manged to do an install that 
didn't include it because there at least package I've needed has it as a 
dependency - and remember at package selection time (I don't delay this 
until post-install) there's as yet no way to pull in Sun/Oracle Java.

> 2. None of the above includes Derby, which is included in the Sun
> releases. That's a package simply called derby.
>
True. Due to a PostgreSQL fixation I keep meaning to use it but haven't 
yet.
 
>> though you can easily switch to Oracle/Sun Java by simply downloading
>> and installing it
>
However, by that time OpenJava is already installed. So far I haven't 
been brave enough to uninstall it after I've installed the Sun/Oracle JDK. 
Have you tried this?
   
> The upshot of this is that if you install something from an RPM, then
> all you get is the installation. It is up to you to obtain the
> installer, install dependencies, install updates when they are released,
> and so on. Whereas if you install from YUM, the machine does all that
> for you.
>
Not entirely true because you can add repositories to the Yum 
configuration: I normally add rpmfusion and atrpms and current releases 
of GoogleMaps add their repository as well. 

> whereas
> an install from YUM will upgrade to it as a matter of routine. (I feel
> so sorry for users of operating systems where this is not the norm, such
> as Windows and most of OS X; Unix users get this wonderful
> up-to-dateness as standard)
>
Agreed. That is why I add atrpms and rpmfusion, but beware: there can be 
odd dependency clashes between repositories: there are currently stopping 
me from installing vlc and avidemux: eventually I'll crack and compile 
these from source.

> 6. OpenJDK is a YUM install and the Sun JDK is an RPM install. So,
> choosing Sun over OpenJDK means giving up painless automatic updates.
>
If you pull in an RPM install/update directly (as I regularly do for both 
Java and Opera, the next yum update will complain that something changed 
the RPM database without telling it. This can be safely ignored if you 
know you did this.
  
> 7. The right way to manage multiple installations of Java is through the
> standard 'alternatives' mechanism. See:
>
I use this for swapping from sendmail to Postfix, both both are Fedora 
packages: not doing so causes arse-ache. However, merely changing $PATH 
by dropping java.sh (my custom script: contains pathmunge commands) into 
/etc/profile.d/ is easy and works equally well.

FWIW the predefined alternatives in F15 are only OpenJava and gcj 
(compile to native using the gcc Java-->C preprocessor) 
    
8. Being the 'default' Java means, amongst other things, that OpenJDK is
> a dependency of any package which uses Java. Hence, even if you install
> the Sun JDK, using YUM to install such a package will drag in OpenJDK -
> even though it won't actually be used! It's possible this won't happen
> if you have correctly used the alternatives mechanism, as above, but i
> can't guarantee it.
>
Quite.
 
> 9. I don't think any standard installation process sets the JAVA_HOME
> environment variable, so add an export for that to your .bashrc (and
> make sure your .bash_profile sources your .bashrc - or do something
> different if you prefer). This is not required, but i often come across
> bits of software (like JBoss) which either assume or are greatly
> comforted by its presence.
>
True.
 
> 10. There are loads of Java libraries in the package repositories, all
> just a few effortless keystrokes away. However! I'm not sure i really
> recommend getting libraries this way. Although YUM makes getting
> libraries easy, it doesn't help you distribute code written against the
> libraries - unless your consumers are also running Fedora, you are going
> to have to take care of packaging the dependencies yourself. If you
> instead use something like Ivy to get your jars, you can somewhat
> reasonably just distribute your ivy.xml file, or if not, use Ivy to
> build a zip-of-jars to distribute.
> 
Quite. I use a few of them,  configured in manually.
 
I agree with your other points, but haven't added anything: I manually 
installed ant and don't use any IDEs.


-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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Thread

Ubunto Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-10-13 10:44 -0700
  Re: Ubunto Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-13 22:27 +0200
    Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-14 01:08 +0000
    Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-14 14:21 +0100
      Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-14 17:00 -0400
        Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-14 22:20 +0000
          Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 01:16 -0400
            Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-15 12:21 +0000
              Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 15:42 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 00:23 +0000
              Re: Ubuntu Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-10-15 13:01 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-15 16:49 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 00:57 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 00:51 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-16 22:12 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 21:21 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:50 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 08:59 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:19 +0200
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 17:43 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 22:18 +0200
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:26 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-19 00:18 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:27 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-19 19:39 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 14:15 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-10-20 12:24 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-20 20:53 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:24 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-22 20:38 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:03 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:23 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:24 +0000
                Java 7 javadocs (was Re: Ubuntu) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 14:16 +0000
                Re: Java 7 javadocs (was Re: Ubuntu) David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-10-20 12:27 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-20 20:53 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:05 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 00:32 +0100
            Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-15 15:06 +0100
              Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-15 15:59 +0000
                Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-15 17:15 +0100
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-15 16:48 +0000
                Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 15:45 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 00:17 +0000
                Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-16 23:40 +0100
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 23:50 +0000
              Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 15:46 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-16 23:44 +0100
                Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-16 20:41 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-16 17:48 -0700
                Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-16 20:59 -0400
    Re: Ubunto Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-10-16 11:39 +0300
      Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 11:22 +0000
        Re: Ubunto Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-16 10:58 -0300
      Re: Ubunto Dancing Fingers <batymahn@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 01:51 -0700
  Re: Ubunto Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-13 22:54 -0400
  Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-14 14:20 +0100
    Re: Ubunto Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-10-15 13:04 -0700
      Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 01:03 +0000
        Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 00:31 +0100
          Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 00:29 +0000
            Re: Ubunto Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-16 22:03 -0400
              Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 15:08 +0100
              Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 21:29 +0000
            Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 16:47 +0100
          Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-16 20:55 -0400
            Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 21:37 +0000
          Re: Ubunto Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-16 22:14 -0400

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