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Re: Ubuntu

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On Sun, 16 Oct 2011, Martin Gregorie wrote:

> On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 13:01:46 -0700, Roedy Green wrote:
>
>> I am a puzzled by the Unix folk having so many ways of handling the 
>> GUI. I have heard of Gnome 1 2 3, KDE, X-Windows, Xfce, Unify
>
> Because we get a choice over the L&F. Everything uses X11, aka X-windows:
> thats the underlying display technology for all graphical displays on
> UNIX/Linux

OS X is a certified UNIX, and does not use X for its main window system. I 
don't know much about Android, but i suspect it does not use X.

Less pedantically, mainstream Linux seems to be heading away from X too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_%28display_server_protocol%29

> To do anything useful with X11 you use a window manager: all distros 
> pick one to use as default and each has its own style of handling the 
> desktop, decorating application windows, launching applications, etc. 
> etc. - hence the religious wars and differences of opinion over them. 
> The common ones are Gnome and KDE (the two commonest ones), XFCE (very 
> basic, but lightweight. If you run up VNC the default desktop for it is 
> XFCE) and Unity (currently restricted to Ubuntu, introduced because they 
> hate Gnome 3 but its reportedly disliked just as much).

None of those are window managers. They are desktop environments; they 
*include* a window manager as a core component (GNOME 2's is Metacity), 
but this can often be replaced (the popular upgrade on GNOME 2 is to 
Compiz). They include other important things too, like the session 
manager, panels, dock, etc.

I'll also add LXDE, which an even more lightweight desktop environment for 
people who think XFCE is bloated.

>> Which does Java use?
>
> None, but Swing has a limited ability provide the same look and feel as 
> the native windows manager for the system the JVM is installed on

Again, it's not the window manager it's imitating, it's the widget 
toolkit. A widget toolkit knows how to draw buttons and scrollbars and so 
on, and is one of the building blocks of a desktop environment (although i 
think not a window manager proper?). KDE uses the Qt toolkit; all other 
significant desktop environments use GTK.

A surprising thing for newcomers to Linux is that applications written 
using one widget toolkit will happily work on a desktop using another one 
(eg a Qt app on GNOME, which uses GTK). This is because the widget 
toolkits talk directly to the X server. The only thing is that the app's 
widgets will look inconsistent with the rest of the desktop.

> as well as Java's cross-platform Metal look & feel, e.g. G3 buttons and 
> text entry boxes have rounded corners, but Java doesn't and its default 
> button background gradient is different, as is the main menu bar though 
> the appearance is fairly close. The title bar and its drop-down menus 
> are, however, identical.

GNOME 3 uses GTK as a widget toolkit, and styles it with a special theme. 
Java imitates GTK with a standard theme (i assume), hence the difference.

AWT must use a widget toolkit directly. In the Fedora release, this 
appears to be GTK.

If you're into SWT, that uses GTK directly.

How does Eclipse (as a representative SWT app) look under GNOME 3?

tom

-- 
So the moon is approximately 24 toasters from Scunthorpe.

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Ubunto Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-10-13 10:44 -0700
  Re: Ubunto Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-13 22:27 +0200
    Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-14 01:08 +0000
    Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-14 14:21 +0100
      Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-14 17:00 -0400
        Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-14 22:20 +0000
          Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 01:16 -0400
            Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-15 12:21 +0000
              Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 15:42 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 00:23 +0000
              Re: Ubuntu Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-10-15 13:01 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-15 16:49 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 00:57 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 00:51 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-16 22:12 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 21:21 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:50 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 08:59 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:19 +0200
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 17:43 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 22:18 +0200
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:26 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-19 00:18 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:27 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-19 19:39 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 14:15 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-10-20 12:24 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-20 20:53 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:24 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-22 20:38 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:03 +0000
                Re: Ubuntu Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:23 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:24 +0000
                Java 7 javadocs (was Re: Ubuntu) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 14:16 +0000
                Re: Java 7 javadocs (was Re: Ubuntu) David Lamb <dalamb@cs.queensu.ca> - 2011-10-20 12:27 -0400
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-20 20:53 +0100
                Re: Ubuntu Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:05 -0700
                Re: Ubuntu Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 00:32 +0100
            Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-15 15:06 +0100
              Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-15 15:59 +0000
                Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-15 17:15 +0100
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-15 16:48 +0000
                Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 15:45 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 00:17 +0000
                Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-16 23:40 +0100
                Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 23:50 +0000
              Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-15 15:46 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-16 23:44 +0100
                Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-16 20:41 -0400
                Re: Ubunto Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-16 17:48 -0700
                Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-16 20:59 -0400
    Re: Ubunto Stanimir Stamenkov <s7an10@netscape.net> - 2011-10-16 11:39 +0300
      Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 11:22 +0000
        Re: Ubunto Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-16 10:58 -0300
      Re: Ubunto Dancing Fingers <batymahn@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 01:51 -0700
  Re: Ubunto Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-13 22:54 -0400
  Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-14 14:20 +0100
    Re: Ubunto Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2011-10-15 13:04 -0700
      Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-16 01:03 +0000
        Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 00:31 +0100
          Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 00:29 +0000
            Re: Ubunto Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-16 22:03 -0400
              Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 15:08 +0100
              Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 21:29 +0000
            Re: Ubunto Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 16:47 +0100
          Re: Ubunto B1ll Gat3s <wm.g4t3s@m1cr0s0f7.c0m> - 2011-10-16 20:55 -0400
            Re: Ubunto Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-17 21:37 +0000
          Re: Ubunto Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-10-16 22:14 -0400

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