Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #5285

Re: Call by Result

From	Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Call by Result
References	(2 earlier) <4DF2289B.5030909@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> <result-20110610163231@ram.dialup.fu-berlin.de> <56q4v6h1afrmkktk7rqiolgdqqkms387tv@4ax.com> <UrydnYJqW_8vHm_QnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@earthlink.com> <jk5bv6leckk75rthdbg3ds0f00u8vibnnn@4ax.com>
Message-ID	<HvlJp.1814$z67.488@newsfe10.iad> (permalink)
Organization	Public Usenet Newsgroup Access
Date	2011-06-13 07:20 -0300

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On 11-06-13 01:53 AM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:50:53 -0700, Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 6/10/2011 11:57 AM, Gene Wirchenko wrote:
>> ...
>>>       I am also someone who has been programming professionally for
>>> about twenty-five years.  In that time, I have worked out conventions
>>> across different languages for variable-naming.
>> ...
>>
>> I much prefer to have my code in each language look like conventional
>> code in its language.
> 
>      Much code looks the same in multiple languages.  Which language
> is
>           a=b*c+d
> in?

Ideally none. Which brings us back to Patricia's point: what you would
_actually_ use in place of 'a' tends to look different based on what
language you're using.

>> Code is not going to be more than very superficially readable by someone
>> who does not know its language, so the reading audience is generally
>> programmers who are familiar with the language. Those programmers will
> 
>      There is a lot of commonality in notation.  Compare the switch
> statements in C, Java, and JavaScript.
[ SNIP ]

There is indeed. Some constructs, like the usual assortment of control
statements, are similar (or identical) across dozens of languages.
Probably most competent programmers with a good deal of varied
experience can parse code in quite a few languages to establish _general
purpose_ of a program, including code written in languages they have
never used.

On the other hand, I wouldn't expect a programmer to be capable of
conducting a code review unless they were familiar with the language
(i.e. they could write good-quality original code in the target language).

You could call the distinction above the difference between superficial
and non-superficial understanding. I wouldn't attempt to classify this
myself; I'd simply assert that the closer two languages are to each
other in genealogy, the easier it is for a programmer who knows one of
them well to understand programs written in the other. I'll bet most
programmers have eventually been in situations where they are writing a
program in language X and borrow implementation ideas from code examples
written in language Y. You don't have to know language Y all that well
in order to do this.

To return to the original point, languages do have conventions. It helps
to follow them. That a given language, say language X, happens to be
close enough to language Y that the two share a lot of conventions (or
what seems to be often the case, they deliberately don't) is not that
important. What's important is to be aware of what substantive and
common conventions exist for a given language. Or for that matter, for a
given organization or team. Or single coder: single coders are allowed
to have conventions too.

To seize on one specific related to the last, a convention like the one
that you follow, Hungarian notation in its original, Simonyi sense,
makes a lot of sense. I've used forms of it myself. For me this is not a
convention specific to a language, it's specific to a problem that's
being solved. I could use it in Java or C++ or F#, and it wouldn't be
wrong to use it, because it's a problem-specific tailored notation, not
a language convention notation.

AHS

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Thread

Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-09 23:03 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 07:33 +0000
    Re: Call by Result Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-06-10 10:03 +0100
      Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 09:47 +0000
      Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-10 08:23 -0300
        Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 13:12 +0000
          Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-10 15:44 -0300
            Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-12 16:29 +0000
              Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-12 23:00 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-12 23:06 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-14 10:52 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-14 17:13 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-14 17:58 -0300
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-14 21:18 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-14 20:14 -0300
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-15 07:13 -0300
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-15 12:50 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-15 18:52 -0300
                Re: Call by Result lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 07:06 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-15 21:33 -0400
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-16 11:03 +0000
                Re: Call by Result "H.J. Sander Bruggink" <sander.bruggink@uni-due.de> - 2011-06-16 13:09 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Lewis Bloch <lewisbloch@google.com> - 2011-06-16 06:59 -0700
                Re: Call by Result "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-16 23:14 -0400
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:31 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-12 14:27 -0300
      Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-10 07:20 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-10 09:30 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:44 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:26 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-11 15:07 +0000
        Re: Call by Result Abu Yahya <abu_yahya@invalid.com> - 2011-06-11 23:00 +0530
          Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-11 19:36 +0000
            Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-11 21:06 +0000
              Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-12 10:53 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-12 09:28 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-12 17:48 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-12 13:19 -0700
            Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-11 15:39 -0700
              Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-12 11:07 +0000
                Re: Call by Result markspace <-@.> - 2011-06-12 07:02 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-12 09:39 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-14 10:29 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-14 09:14 -0700
                Re: Call by Result markspace <-@.> - 2011-06-14 09:21 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-14 09:53 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-14 09:57 -0700
            Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:44 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:40 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-10 01:30 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:45 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-10 07:50 -0400
  Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-10 15:35 +0200
  Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 13:56 +0000
  Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-10 07:22 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:56 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:57 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-10 13:50 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:53 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-13 07:20 -0300
            Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-13 08:08 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-11 16:35 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-12 11:05 +0000
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:56 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-14 00:40 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-11 21:18 +0000
  Re: Call by Result markspace <-@.> - 2011-06-10 08:43 -0700
  Re: Call by Result RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-06-10 17:01 +0100
    Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-10 16:55 +0000
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:59 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-11 16:24 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:59 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-13 07:53 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-14 00:43 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:55 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-06-11 09:09 +0100
  Re: Call by Result Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-16 11:30 -0300
    Re: Call by Result Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 02:38 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-17 12:06 -0700
    Re: Call by Result lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-17 06:40 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-17 11:43 -0300

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