Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #5249

Re: Call by Result

From	Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: Call by Result
Date	2011-06-12 17:48 +0000
Organization	UK Free Software Network
Message-ID	<it2u5f$tvm$1@localhost.localdomain> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <it08mv$kh4$1@speranza.aioe.org> <it0g3m$91t$1@localhost.localdomain> <slrniv7m6o.phi.avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <it25r4$n3q$1@localhost.localdomain> <4DF4E93F.7010100@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com>

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On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 09:28:47 -0700, Peter Duniho wrote:

> Whatever you might think of Hungarian notation _or_ Microsoft, since it
> was invented by Charles Simonyi _before_ he ever was entertaining the
> idea of being a Microsoft employee, it is ridiculous to suggest that the
> convention was invented in order to gloss over "deficiencies" in
> Microsoft's compiler, real or imagined.
>
I wasn't pointing the finger exclusively at MS - a lot of the early K&R C 
compilers were awful and were certainly deficient in type matching, 
especially for pointer types. Remember, this was the era when almost all 
C compilers consisted of a control program and four separate subsidiary 
programs: macro-processor, C to assembler translator, assembler and 
linker. They often had to be that way because of current memory sizes.

The first versions of MS C dated from that era, so it would be surprising 
if they didn't suffer from the same deficiencies. However, I admit that I 
still don't see any reason for introducing Hungarian notation except as a 
workround for the lack of rigour in the early compilers.

Context: at that point, 1983/4, I taught myself C on 6809 boxes - Windrush 
C on a box with 48K RAM. The first halfway decent C I used was Microware's 
K&R flavour for OS-09/68K (which I still use from time to time). It was 
some time later that I started to use Borland C, with its excruciating 
four memory models plus near and far pointers and non-standard 'standard 
libraries', on a DOS box before moving to the Windows version with WfW 
3.11. The first really good C I met was the DEC VAX flavour - and IIRC 
that was still K&R rather than ANSI.

-- 
martin@   | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org       |

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Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-09 23:03 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 07:33 +0000
    Re: Call by Result Nigel Wade <nmw-news@ion.le.ac.uk> - 2011-06-10 10:03 +0100
      Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 09:47 +0000
      Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-10 08:23 -0300
        Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 13:12 +0000
          Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-10 15:44 -0300
            Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-12 16:29 +0000
              Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-12 23:00 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-12 23:06 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-14 10:52 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-14 17:13 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-14 17:58 -0300
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-14 21:18 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-14 20:14 -0300
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-15 07:13 -0300
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-15 12:50 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-15 18:52 -0300
                Re: Call by Result lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-15 07:06 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Michael Wojcik <mwojcik@newsguy.com> - 2011-06-15 21:33 -0400
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-16 11:03 +0000
                Re: Call by Result "H.J. Sander Bruggink" <sander.bruggink@uni-due.de> - 2011-06-16 13:09 +0200
                Re: Call by Result Lewis Bloch <lewisbloch@google.com> - 2011-06-16 06:59 -0700
                Re: Call by Result "John B. Matthews" <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2011-06-16 23:14 -0400
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:31 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-12 14:27 -0300
      Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-10 07:20 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-10 09:30 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:44 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:26 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-11 15:07 +0000
        Re: Call by Result Abu Yahya <abu_yahya@invalid.com> - 2011-06-11 23:00 +0530
          Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-11 19:36 +0000
            Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-11 21:06 +0000
              Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-12 10:53 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-12 09:28 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-12 17:48 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-12 13:19 -0700
            Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-11 15:39 -0700
              Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-12 11:07 +0000
                Re: Call by Result markspace <-@.> - 2011-06-12 07:02 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-12 09:39 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-14 10:29 +0000
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-14 09:14 -0700
                Re: Call by Result markspace <-@.> - 2011-06-14 09:21 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-14 09:53 -0700
                Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-14 09:57 -0700
            Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:44 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:40 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-10 01:30 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:45 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2011-06-10 07:50 -0400
  Re: Call by Result Silvio <silvio@moc.com> - 2011-06-10 15:35 +0200
  Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-10 13:56 +0000
  Re: Call by Result Peter Duniho <NpOeStPeAdM@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> - 2011-06-10 07:22 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:56 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:57 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-10 13:50 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:53 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-06-13 07:20 -0300
            Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-13 08:08 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-11 16:35 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-12 11:05 +0000
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:56 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-14 00:40 -0700
    Re: Call by Result Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-06-11 21:18 +0000
  Re: Call by Result markspace <-@.> - 2011-06-10 08:43 -0700
  Re: Call by Result RedGrittyBrick <RedGrittyBrick@spamweary.invalid> - 2011-06-10 17:01 +0100
    Re: Call by Result Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-06-10 16:55 +0000
    Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:59 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-11 16:24 -0700
        Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-12 21:59 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-13 07:53 -0700
          Re: Call by Result Wojtek <nowhere@a.com> - 2011-06-14 00:43 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-10 11:55 -0700
  Re: Call by Result Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-06-11 09:09 +0100
  Re: Call by Result Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-16 11:30 -0300
    Re: Call by Result Paul Cager <paul.cager@googlemail.com> - 2011-06-17 02:38 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2011-06-17 12:06 -0700
    Re: Call by Result lewbloch <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-06-17 06:40 -0700
      Re: Call by Result Cholo Lennon <chololennon@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-17 11:43 -0300

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