Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #13541

Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build?

From	Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build?
References	(8 earlier) <jlll4q$r35$1@dont-email.me> <WtKfr.46013$QC3.3988@newsfe16.iad> <4f87744c$0$286$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <Yl3ir.4832$YM2.3101@newsfe05.iad> <4f88ccd1$0$284$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID	<CK4ir.701$DB1.680@newsfe03.iad> (permalink)
Organization	Public Usenet Newsgroup Access
Date	2012-04-13 22:51 -0300

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On 12-04-13 10:03 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 4/13/2012 8:16 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>> On 12-04-12 09:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> On 4/6/2012 6:53 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>> On 12-04-05 11:41 PM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>>>> On 4/5/2012 7:46 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>>>> On 4/5/2012 2:42 PM, Lew wrote:
>>>>>>> [...] "They developed it
>>>>>>> for Java 1.4 eight years ago" is not even a pitiful excuse. Java
>>>>>>> 5 is
>>>>>>> already obsolete, and Java 6 is not far behind. Move forward or die.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is not technical debt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Technical debt is when the code was not good when written.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here something externally changed.
>>>>>
>>>>>       So the debt is incurred by Java itself, not by the code written
>>>>> in Java?  Okay, then: It's not a technical debt, it's a technical tax.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And getting funding to lift ones code to a newer version of
>>>>>> platform without providing any new value is typical very
>>>>>> difficult.
>>>>>
>>>>>       True, and rightly so.  Any rewrite, even one that's 95%
>>>>> mechanical,
>>>>> is guaranteed to introduce new errors that will need to be found and
>>>>> fixed and patched and apologized for.  To disturb the (mature, tested,
>>>>> trusted) code, you need a better reason than "Fashions have changed."
>>>>>
>>>> Well, it's not just "fashions have changed", nor in answer to Arne's
>>>> point is it the case that there is no new value. The new value that I'd
>>>> expect to get from a newer version of Java, and the message I'd want to
>>>> push to business, is that the maintainability and adaptability of the
>>>> codebase has now improved.
>>>
>>> That is a classic argument.
>>>
>>> But does it hold water?
>>>
>>> Let us say that you have 100 Java developers maintaining
>>> a code base in Java 1.4 - how many people would you reduce that to
>>> if you got it lifted to 1.6? 90? 80? 70? 60?
>>
>> That depends on the nature of the work. But let me give you an example:
>> let's say that the 1.4 codebase is loaded with low-level concurrency
>> constructs. Modules that use this kind of code may be "hands-off, it
>> sort of works except when it doesn't. I've worked with plenty of Java
>> apps that have this kind of older concurrency code.
>>
>> I think there is/was a compelling case to move to 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7
>> simply to avail oneself of the java.util.concurrent stuff. I have
>> reworked several subsystems for clients in this manner and I know for a
>> fact that it has freed up significant inhouse developer time for more
>> useful work. Not only that, but having 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 be the new
>> organizational standard for a client means that new systems will
>> inexorably use java.util.concurrent APIs for concurrency work.
>> Developers lead and follow by example: keep 1.4 low-level thread code
>> around in apps and it tends to be copied.
>>
>> That's just one example.
> 
> And certainly one of the better examples.
> 
> juc can certainly reduce maintenance cost.
> 
> But if we look at other Java 5 new features: generics, enums,
> new for loop, auto boxing/unboxing, static import, varargs -
> then I do not see the same benefits.
> 
> Arne

Nor do I, mostly. I picked java.util.concurrent because it stands out.
Similarly collections enhancements in 1.6. There are other API additions
and enhancements that may be or greater or lesser significance depending
on your interests.

Overall I find that library/API additions and improvements are a much
bigger deal for me than language enhancements. Just from the list above
that you provided, I don't use static import, very rarely use varargs,
use "foreach" because it exists but could easily live without it.
Autoboxing/unboxing: some value in improving readability, provided that
you are aware of the pitfalls. Enums: nice enough but I wouldn't say
they were earthshaking.

Generics: moderate utility. IMO. Same readability problems as what it
replaced, more or less, moved checking to an earlier stage which is
good. But I've written enough code in dynamically-typed languages to
know that I don't typically get hammered by all sorts of runtime errors
anyway, so sometimes the Java approach feels like it solved a problem I
didn't really have. But one's mileage will definitely vary. Don't get me
wrong, I don't think generics are bad, but they are probably by
themselves not a compelling reason to bump up from 1.4 to 1.5 or later.

AHS
-- 
A fly was very close to being called a "land," cause that's what they do
half the time.
-- Mitch Hedberg

Thread

How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? zyng <xsli2@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-04 06:29 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-04 10:54 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-04 13:05 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-04 18:24 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-04-04 19:15 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-04-04 19:39 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-04-05 09:46 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-05 11:42 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-05 19:46 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-05 19:35 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-12 20:27 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-12 19:29 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 21:07 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-14 12:53 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-14 16:16 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-14 13:37 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-14 17:29 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-15 01:25 -0500
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-15 10:30 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-15 11:16 -0500
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:48 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-15 19:54 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:47 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-05-07 09:31 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-15 19:58 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:50 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-05-07 09:33 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-04-05 22:41 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-06 19:53 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-04-06 21:35 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-12 20:33 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-13 21:16 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 21:03 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-13 22:51 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:51 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-12 20:29 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-04-12 21:28 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 21:04 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-04-05 14:04 -0700

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