Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #13531

Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build?

From	Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build?
References	(6 earlier) <10168300.3443.1333651355770.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbcto7> <4f7e2ee4$0$288$14726298@news.sunsite.dk> <jlll4q$r35$1@dont-email.me> <WtKfr.46013$QC3.3988@newsfe16.iad> <4f87744c$0$286$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Message-ID	<Yl3ir.4832$YM2.3101@newsfe05.iad> (permalink)
Organization	Public Usenet Newsgroup Access
Date	2012-04-13 21:16 -0300

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On 12-04-12 09:33 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> On 4/6/2012 6:53 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>> On 12-04-05 11:41 PM, Eric Sosman wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2012 7:46 PM, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>>> On 4/5/2012 2:42 PM, Lew wrote:
>>>>> [...] "They developed it
>>>>> for Java 1.4 eight years ago" is not even a pitiful excuse. Java 5 is
>>>>> already obsolete, and Java 6 is not far behind. Move forward or die.
>>>>
>>>> It is not technical debt.
>>>>
>>>> Technical debt is when the code was not good when written.
>>>>
>>>> Here something externally changed.
>>>
>>>      So the debt is incurred by Java itself, not by the code written
>>> in Java?  Okay, then: It's not a technical debt, it's a technical tax.
>>>
>>>> And getting funding to lift ones code to a newer version of
>>>> platform without providing any new value is typical very
>>>> difficult.
>>>
>>>      True, and rightly so.  Any rewrite, even one that's 95% mechanical,
>>> is guaranteed to introduce new errors that will need to be found and
>>> fixed and patched and apologized for.  To disturb the (mature, tested,
>>> trusted) code, you need a better reason than "Fashions have changed."
>>>
>> Well, it's not just "fashions have changed", nor in answer to Arne's
>> point is it the case that there is no new value. The new value that I'd
>> expect to get from a newer version of Java, and the message I'd want to
>> push to business, is that the maintainability and adaptability of the
>> codebase has now improved.
> 
> That is a classic argument.
> 
> But does it hold water?
> 
> Let us say that you have 100 Java developers maintaining
> a code base in Java 1.4 - how many people would you reduce that to
> if you got it lifted to 1.6? 90? 80? 70? 60?

That depends on the nature of the work. But let me give you an example:
let's say that the 1.4 codebase is loaded with low-level concurrency
constructs. Modules that use this kind of code may be "hands-off, it
sort of works except when it doesn't. I've worked with plenty of Java
apps that have this kind of older concurrency code.

I think there is/was a compelling case to move to 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7
simply to avail oneself of the java.util.concurrent stuff. I have
reworked several subsystems for clients in this manner and I know for a
fact that it has freed up significant inhouse developer time for more
useful work. Not only that, but having 1.5 or 1.6 or 1.7 be the new
organizational standard for a client means that new systems will
inexorably use java.util.concurrent APIs for concurrency work.
Developers lead and follow by example: keep 1.4 low-level thread code
around in apps and it tends to be copied.

That's just one example.

>> Just last year I worked on a project where I was compelled to write new
>> code in Java 1.3. With java.lang.String, for example, the extra amount
>> of error-prone code I had to write to do some string manipulations was
>> jarring, because of missing methods that showed up only in 1.4 or 1.5.
>>
>> "Mature, tested, trusted" in many cases really means that you've got
>> known problems that have bandaid fixes, carefully worked-out data fixes,
>> and established workarounds for problems. That's not a state of affairs,
>> except with an app that is due to be replaced soon, that I think I'd
>> want to tolerate: any upgrade of the language that shakes the tree and
>> forces improvements to the program is, I contend, a good thing.
> 
> There are good and bad things.
> 
> And then there are things that increase cost and those that
> reduce cost.
> 
> Arne
> 
I'd leave a 1.4 system be if it was reliable and was never going to be
modified or extended. But if that was not the case I'd introduce a Java
version upgrade with the new work.

AHS
-- 
A fly was very close to being called a "land," cause that's what they do
half the time.
-- Mitch Hedberg

Thread

How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? zyng <xsli2@yahoo.com> - 2012-04-04 06:29 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-04 10:54 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Roedy Green <see_website@mindprod.com.invalid> - 2012-04-04 13:05 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-04 18:24 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-04-04 19:15 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-04-04 19:39 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-04-05 09:46 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-05 11:42 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-05 19:46 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-05 19:35 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-12 20:27 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-12 19:29 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 21:07 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-14 12:53 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-14 16:16 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2012-04-14 13:37 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-14 17:29 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-15 01:25 -0500
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-15 10:30 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Leif Roar Moldskred <leifm@dimnakorr.com> - 2012-04-15 11:16 -0500
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:48 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-15 19:54 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:47 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-05-07 09:31 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-04-15 19:58 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:50 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Gene Wirchenko <genew@ocis.net> - 2012-05-07 09:33 -0700
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-04-05 22:41 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-06 19:53 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-04-06 21:35 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-12 20:33 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-13 21:16 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 21:03 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-04-13 22:51 -0300
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-05-05 20:51 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-12 20:29 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> - 2012-04-12 21:28 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-04-13 21:04 -0400
Re: How to turn off those warning messages during ant build? Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2012-04-05 14:04 -0700

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