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Re: Hairy generics question

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On 12-03-10 11:38 AM, Lew wrote:
> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>> Lew wrote:
>>> Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>> If you choose to think of JSF as MVC - let's say because you aren't
>>>> interested in breaking out MVP as a derivative of MVC - then that's
>>>> fine
>>>> too. I have no problem with that, it's what I actually do myself,
>>>> because most folks haven't heard of MVP anyway so why confuse them? I
>>>> would like it though if people who "knowledgeably" classify JSF as
>>>> being
>>>> MVC could identify what the Controller is in JSF: I've run across more
>>>> people than not who either think it's the FacesServlet or just don't
>>>> know.
>>>
>>> JSF is MVC if you think of a backing bean as a (generally) per-screen
>>> controller.
>>
>> It usually have functionality besides controller, so it is not just
>> a controller.
>>
>> And clean MVC should have something that is just a controller.
> 
> QWhat non-controller functionality goes in a backing bean?
> 
> I've done a fair amount of JSF work, and the backing beans I've done
> work just like a controller - they coordinate screen events and delegate
> fulfillment to model objects.
> 
> I'm not sure where one exactly draws the line between "logic" and
> "control", so perhaps I'm not writing controllers, but your statement is
> too vague for me to discern if that's so. Please clarify.
> 
Looking at typical backing beans is a good place to start. A
bog-standard backing bean will have fields, the accessors for those
fields, and action methods.

Everything is up for debate, here, that's the point of this subthread.
:-) I'll sweeten the pot by suggesting that action methods belong to the
Controller, if we are sticking to an MVC picture.

Maybe we'll leave listeners aside for a moment, although some of them
will certainly figure in this discussion.

Now, what about the fields and accessors? As I see it a lot of these are
part of the View, or the presentation state. I think it's seriously
unfortunate that one JSF lifecycle phase is called "UPDATE_MODEL_VALUES"
because to me, as a starting point, the model acted upon here is a
*presentation* model, not the Model in MVC.

This is my initial contribution. I think a typical backing bean is
likely to include bits of both V and C in MVC.

AHS

-- 
Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em
move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start
to load shit into a truck.
-- Mitch Hedberg

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Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-26 13:13 -0400
  What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-26 10:22 -0800
    Re: What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 13:08 -0800
      Re: What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 18:17 -0500
        Re: What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) sclaflin@webucator.com - 2012-02-28 06:22 -0800
  Re: Hairy generics question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-28 09:46 -0800
    Re: Hairy generics question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-28 09:49 -0800
    Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-28 12:45 -0800
    Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-29 19:37 -0400
      Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-29 22:32 -0800
        Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-09 21:33 -0500
          Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-10 07:38 -0800
            Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-10 12:45 -0400
            Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-10 12:03 -0500
              Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-10 09:47 -0800
                Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-10 13:26 -0500
                Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-11 14:06 -0300
                Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-11 18:20 -0400
    Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-09 21:43 -0500

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