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Re: Hairy generics question

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Arne Vajhøj wrote:
> Lew wrote:
>> Arne Vajhøj wrote:
>>> Lew wrote:
>>>> Arved Sandstrom wrote:
>>>>> If you choose to think of JSF as MVC - let's say because you aren't
>>>>> interested in breaking out MVP as a derivative of MVC - then that's
>>>>> fine
>>>>> too. I have no problem with that, it's what I actually do myself,
>>>>> because most folks haven't heard of MVP anyway so why confuse them? I
>>>>> would like it though if people who "knowledgeably" classify JSF as
>>>>> being
>>>>> MVC could identify what the Controller is in JSF: I've run across more
>>>>> people than not who either think it's the FacesServlet or just don't
>>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>> JSF is MVC if you think of a backing bean as a (generally) per-screen
>>>> controller.
>>>
>>> It usually have functionality besides controller, so it is not just
>>> a controller.
>>>
>>> And clean MVC should have something that is just a controller.
>>
>> QWhat non-controller functionality goes in a backing bean?
>>
>> I've done a fair amount of JSF work, and the backing beans I've done
>> work just like a controller - they coordinate screen events and delegate
>> fulfillment to model objects.
>
> Typical a backing bean will also contain data.
>
> In Struts you have the form bean / dyna bean with the data
> and the action class being the controller.
>
> In JSF the form data and the controller got mixed up a bit.

You can mix up data and action in Struts, too. Doesn't reflect on the 
framework so much as the practitioner.

Arved's points resonated with me also. Even the Model 2 MVC style has screen 
field awareness in the C; has to, in order to properly dispatch logic. Arved's 
comment pertains, "Everything is up for debate, here, that's the point of this 
subthread."

Whether "JSF is MVC" now sounds like a style issue as I integrate your 
information. I'm in the habit of writing JSF backing beans more like a 
controller and less like a model-aware component, and your experience reveals 
a style with less rigorous a separation. I suggest that while JSF admits of a 
non-MVC approach, as you say, one should yet design along MVC lines.

Just having the MVC pattern in mind, with keen understanding of separation of 
concerns and other principles, one will tend to a good architecture however 
fuzzy the particular label for it. As always, there are no absolute rules, 
only firm, supportive principles.

-- 
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Friz.jpg

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Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-26 13:13 -0400
  What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-26 10:22 -0800
    Re: What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-26 13:08 -0800
      Re: What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-02-26 18:17 -0500
        Re: What is Model View Presenter. (Was: Hairy generics question) sclaflin@webucator.com - 2012-02-28 06:22 -0800
  Re: Hairy generics question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-28 09:46 -0800
    Re: Hairy generics question Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2012-02-28 09:49 -0800
    Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-28 12:45 -0800
    Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-02-29 19:37 -0400
      Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-02-29 22:32 -0800
        Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-09 21:33 -0500
          Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-10 07:38 -0800
            Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-10 12:45 -0400
            Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-10 12:03 -0500
              Re: Hairy generics question Lew <noone@lewscanon.com> - 2012-03-10 09:47 -0800
                Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-10 13:26 -0500
                Re: Hairy generics question Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2012-03-11 14:06 -0300
                Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-11 18:20 -0400
    Re: Hairy generics question Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2012-03-09 21:43 -0500

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