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Re: generics puzzle

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From	blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject	Re: generics puzzle
Date	21 Oct 2011 16:29:30 GMT
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In article <oRaoq.14283$8d4.2129@newsfe02.iad>,
Arved Sandstrom  <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> wrote:
> On 11-10-19 10:29 AM, blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote:
> > In article <j7lj89$su4$1@dont-email.me>, markspace  <-@.> wrote:
> >> On 10/18/2011 10:45 AM, blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote:
> [ SNIP ]
> 
> >> Try to learn a couple of IDEs, it'll help your Java career immensely.
> > 
> > s/career/something/ (I'm not a professional programmer these days.)
> > 
> > I find the interface of a typical IDE to be *WAY* too cluttered for
> > my tastes.  But then that's true of a lot of programs with graphical
> > interfaces.  Probably a YMMV thing.
> > 
> Not to start a war here (I use vi/vim a fair bit myself, GUI programming
> text editors quite a lot, *and* also full-blown IDEs), but what do _you_
> consider to be an IDE exactly?

Possibly the person you really want to hear from here is the one who
recommended learning a couple of them, but ....

By "typical IDE" I mean something like Eclipse or NetBeans -- i.e.,
a big complicated program with a GUI.

I don't disagree that vim or emacs with the right plugins might qualify
as an IDE (using a somewhat literal-minded definition), but *typical*
IDE, maybe not so much?

> I just now separated "full-blown" IDEs from other categories, but that's
> just because people seem to think that vim/emacs are somehow
> intrinsically different from Notepad++/TextMate are somehow
> intrinsically different from Eclipse/NetBeans/MonoDevelop/Code::Blocks.
> 
> Again, not to start a war here, but an IDE is an Integrated Development
> Environment. It doesn't have to involve any GUI programs at all, in
> theory. For example, I occasionally write Clojure in vim, and execute
> snippets by sending them to a REPL in another terminal window using
> screen. That's an IDE.
> 
> Being GUI or somewhat GUI or not GUI at all is an orthogonal question.
> IDE != GUI.
> 
> For that matter, given that GUI usually means WIMP (window, icon, menu,
> pointer), and one may be disposed to be critical of GUIs, what exactly
> is one critical of? Especially when sporting a customized emacs
> installation with windows, menus, text-based pseudo-icons, and a
> rapidly-moveable cursor? ;-)
> 
> Let me put it this way, if we are arguing for simplicity of interface,
> I've seen a lot of emacs setups that weren't.

I can believe that.  :-)

(Yeah, yeah, good points, none of which I disagree with.)

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-17 10:41 +0000
  Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-17 13:14 +0100
    Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 15:14 +0100
    Re: generics puzzle markspace <-@.> - 2011-10-17 07:33 -0700
      Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-17 16:26 +0100
        Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:48 +0000
      Re: generics puzzle Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-10-17 15:36 +0000
    Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-17 08:58 -0700
      Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-18 10:45 +0100
        Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-18 09:42 -0700
          Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:25 +0000
            Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-19 10:04 -0700
              Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 14:14 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-20 11:11 -0700
  Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-17 09:12 -0700
    Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:49 +0000
      Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:27 +0200
        Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 17:45 +0000
          Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 22:15 +0200
          Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:59 -0700
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:28 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:21 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:27 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-21 20:34 +0200
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-22 18:50 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-22 21:02 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:04 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:25 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-26 21:56 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-27 08:59 +0000
                eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 17:05 +0000
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 19:49 -0700
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:17 +0000
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 05:39 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 01:30 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 08:56 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 02:46 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:05 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:29 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:14 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 05:34 -0700
          Re: generics puzzle markspace <-@.> - 2011-10-18 21:21 -0700
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:29 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:22 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:28 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-21 06:22 -0300
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:29 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 01:20 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-23 09:51 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 03:28 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-23 15:59 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 02:46 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-23 15:55 +0100
            Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-20 21:00 +0100
          Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:26 +0000
          Re: generics puzzle Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-21 05:57 -0300
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:28 +0000

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