Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail From: blmblm@myrealbox.com Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.programmer Subject: Re: generics puzzle Date: 21 Oct 2011 16:29:30 GMT Organization: None Lines: 59 Message-ID: <9gdkvaFn51U6@mid.individual.net> References: <9g2f24Fi0vU1@mid.individual.net> <9g81mdFj6eU6@mid.individual.net> X-Trace: individual.net v8kORJYq6g/fXNlvlmaZUgh5b6xCjGsAQJNsivk4v9svzsQxI3 X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Cancel-Lock: sha1:q6C9wqG7ol4ls/f3omPk7ksf7ss= X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test76 (Apr 2, 2001) Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.java.programmer:9075 In article , Arved Sandstrom wrote: > On 11-10-19 10:29 AM, blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote: > > In article , markspace <-@.> wrote: > >> On 10/18/2011 10:45 AM, blmblm@myrealbox.com wrote: > [ SNIP ] > > >> Try to learn a couple of IDEs, it'll help your Java career immensely. > > > > s/career/something/ (I'm not a professional programmer these days.) > > > > I find the interface of a typical IDE to be *WAY* too cluttered for > > my tastes. But then that's true of a lot of programs with graphical > > interfaces. Probably a YMMV thing. > > > Not to start a war here (I use vi/vim a fair bit myself, GUI programming > text editors quite a lot, *and* also full-blown IDEs), but what do _you_ > consider to be an IDE exactly? Possibly the person you really want to hear from here is the one who recommended learning a couple of them, but .... By "typical IDE" I mean something like Eclipse or NetBeans -- i.e., a big complicated program with a GUI. I don't disagree that vim or emacs with the right plugins might qualify as an IDE (using a somewhat literal-minded definition), but *typical* IDE, maybe not so much? > I just now separated "full-blown" IDEs from other categories, but that's > just because people seem to think that vim/emacs are somehow > intrinsically different from Notepad++/TextMate are somehow > intrinsically different from Eclipse/NetBeans/MonoDevelop/Code::Blocks. > > Again, not to start a war here, but an IDE is an Integrated Development > Environment. It doesn't have to involve any GUI programs at all, in > theory. For example, I occasionally write Clojure in vim, and execute > snippets by sending them to a REPL in another terminal window using > screen. That's an IDE. > > Being GUI or somewhat GUI or not GUI at all is an orthogonal question. > IDE != GUI. > > For that matter, given that GUI usually means WIMP (window, icon, menu, > pointer), and one may be disposed to be critical of GUIs, what exactly > is one critical of? Especially when sporting a customized emacs > installation with windows, menus, text-based pseudo-icons, and a > rapidly-moveable cursor? ;-) > > Let me put it this way, if we are arguing for simplicity of interface, > I've seen a lot of emacs setups that weren't. I can believe that. :-) (Yeah, yeah, good points, none of which I disagree with.) -- B. L. Massingill ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.