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Re: generics puzzle

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On Oct 21, 12:27 pm, blm...@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myreal...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Eight of Seventeen  <eight...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 19, 9:28 am, blm...@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myreal...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > In article <4df92aca-c98c-40da-9adb-5deed8dbd...@m4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > > Eight of Seventeen  <eight...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Oct 18, 1:45 pm, blm...@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myreal...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > (About tools -- I'm a long-time vim user, more than a little
> > > > > fanatical about my text editor of choice, but more and more for
> > > > > Java code I find myself also starting Eclipse to do some of the
> > > > > things *it* does well, and finding more and more things in that
> > > > > category -- automatic generation of imports and boilerplate code,
> > > > > renaming of classes, etc.)
>
> > > > Ah. Progress at last.
>
> > > "At last"?
>
> > Yes. After years of your promoting primitive text-mode tools as
> > purportedly superior to everything else, you have begun to see the
> > light regarding at least 1 GUI app.
>
> If I could find a text-mode tool that did as much as Eclipse did I'd
> probably use it.

*sigh*

Stockholm syndrome?

I think we need someone in this thread that's better qualified to
diagnose things like that.

> What I like about Eclipse is not its interface --
> I find it cluttered and not as keyboard-drivable as I like

Beats being so bare-boned that when a new user looks at it the sole
thought to enter their head is "what the fuck do I do now?!". I'll
take slightly cluttered, but conducive to discovering the available
functionality (or, at the *very* least, discovering the goddamn help
and how to navigate and search it) anyday.

> (You're starting to sound rather familiar, but I don't recognize the
> name you're using.  Have you used another name to post here?)

Yes.

> (And I decline to take the flamebait I think is implicit in "promoting"
> and "purportedly superior".)

You consider the truth to be "flamebait"?

Interesting.

> > > One of the things I like about it is that it provides a mechanism
> > > for cut and paste, yes.  Why do you call it "somewhat-broken"?
>
> > Well, since it's not a true application-integrated clipboard, it's
> > necessarily going to be limited, basically to what the app's currently
> > displaying at one time. You won't be able to go into a screen-oriented
> > editor and start a selection, go down two pages, end the selection
> > there, and copy.
>
> There is that.  I guess this is something that doesn't come up that
> often for me; if I'm cutting and pasting large blocks of text I'm
> more apt to be doing it entirely from vim.

Which strategy stops working as soon as you want to cut from vim and
paste into a non-vim application, of course.

> It is somewhat annoying to have to mentally switch gears between "screen"
> cut and paste and vim cut and paste, but -- <shrug>.

Those of us using modern operating systems and user interfaces don't
have that problem, of course.

Interesting that you admit to finding it "somewhat" annoying, though.
Another sign of progress?

> > The "screen" program will only see a maximum of one
> > page at a time. With a line-oriented editor and a backscroll buffer of
> > some sort you could get more, except, well, line-oriented editor.
> > Bletch!
>
> Ooh, there's an idea ....  :-)

If I were a religious man, I'd be looking skyward and muttering
something about now.

> > > (Be advised that I'm talking about the GNU version of "screen",
> > > not the non-GNU version, which I haven't used in a while but
> > > which I seem to remember as having fewer features and little if
> > > any documentation.)
>
> > There're two of them? And they didn't think to give them distinct
> > names? Typical.
>
> You hadn't noticed that a lot of the traditional-UNIX tools have
> multiple implementations, and the GNU implementations are apt to
> have more features?

Of course. But they usually have changed names as well; cc -> gcc;
more -> less; yacc -> bison; and so forth.

> > If the underlying app is screen-oriented then it must be.
>
> And if not, not.  "screen" maintains an output buffer that can be
> scrolled through, and cutting and pasting from *that* isn't limited
> to a screenful.

If the app is not screen-oriented, then it is going to be incredibly
clumsy for editing purposes. If it is, any such buffer will either be
empty or chock-full of escape codes, either alternative of which will
spoil your day.

> > is to copy either parts of the
> > app's raw output or its input. But the latter two will be full of
> > escape and control characters, at least in the case where the app is
> > screen-oriented, which will then tend to print like the garbage above.
>
> Just out of curiosity, how much experience do you have with this
> tool you're critiquing?

A lot more than I would have if I had it all to do over again. ;)

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generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-17 10:41 +0000
  Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-17 13:14 +0100
    Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 15:14 +0100
    Re: generics puzzle markspace <-@.> - 2011-10-17 07:33 -0700
      Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-17 16:26 +0100
        Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:48 +0000
      Re: generics puzzle Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-10-17 15:36 +0000
    Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-17 08:58 -0700
      Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-18 10:45 +0100
        Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-18 09:42 -0700
          Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:25 +0000
            Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-19 10:04 -0700
              Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 14:14 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-20 11:11 -0700
  Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-17 09:12 -0700
    Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:49 +0000
      Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:27 +0200
        Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 17:45 +0000
          Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 22:15 +0200
          Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:59 -0700
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:28 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:21 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:27 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-21 20:34 +0200
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-22 18:50 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-22 21:02 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:04 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:25 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-26 21:56 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-27 08:59 +0000
                eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 17:05 +0000
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 19:49 -0700
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:17 +0000
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 05:39 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 01:30 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 08:56 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 02:46 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:05 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:29 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:14 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 05:34 -0700
          Re: generics puzzle markspace <-@.> - 2011-10-18 21:21 -0700
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:29 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:22 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:28 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-21 06:22 -0300
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:29 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 01:20 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-23 09:51 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 03:28 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-23 15:59 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 02:46 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-23 15:55 +0100
            Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-20 21:00 +0100
          Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:26 +0000
          Re: generics puzzle Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-21 05:57 -0300
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:28 +0000

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