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Re: generics puzzle

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In article <a01cc06f-7f35-40eb-a2bd-6b19735d97ad@o19g2000vbk.googlegroups.com>,
Eight of Seventeen  <eights17@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 19, 9:28 am, blm...@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myreal...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > In article <4df92aca-c98c-40da-9adb-5deed8dbd...@m4g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> > Eight of Seventeen  <eight...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Oct 18, 1:45 pm, blm...@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myreal...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > (About tools -- I'm a long-time vim user, more than a little
> > > > fanatical about my text editor of choice, but more and more for
> > > > Java code I find myself also starting Eclipse to do some of the
> > > > things *it* does well, and finding more and more things in that
> > > > category -- automatic generation of imports and boilerplate code,
> > > > renaming of classes, etc.)
> >
> > > Ah. Progress at last.
> >
> > "At last"?
> 
> Yes. After years of your promoting primitive text-mode tools as
> purportedly superior to everything else, you have begun to see the
> light regarding at least 1 GUI app.

If I could find a text-mode tool that did as much as Eclipse did I'd
probably use it.  What I like about Eclipse is not its interface --
I find it cluttered and not as keyboard-drivable as I like -- but
its features.

(You're starting to sound rather familiar, but I don't recognize the
name you're using.  Have you used another name to post here?)

(And I decline to take the flamebait I think is implicit in "promoting"
and "purportedly superior".)

> > > Though I did notice some kooky recommendations about "screen" in
> > > another thread. Did you really say you liked it for its providing a
> > > somewhat-broken, but maybe somewhat-usable, implementation of cross-
> > > app cut and paste?
> >
> > One of the things I like about it is that it provides a mechanism
> > for cut and paste, yes.  Why do you call it "somewhat-broken"?
> 
> Well, since it's not a true application-integrated clipboard, it's
> necessarily going to be limited, basically to what the app's currently
> displaying at one time. You won't be able to go into a screen-oriented
> editor and start a selection, go down two pages, end the selection
> there, and copy. 

There is that.  I guess this is something that doesn't come up that
often for me; if I'm cutting and pasting large blocks of text I'm
more apt to be doing it entirely from vim.  It is somewhat annoying
to have to mentally switch gears between "screen" cut and paste and
vim cut and paste, but -- <shrug>.

> The "screen" program will only see a maximum of one
> page at a time. With a line-oriented editor and a backscroll buffer of
> some sort you could get more, except, well, line-oriented editor.
> Bletch!

Ooh, there's an idea ....  :-)

> > (Be advised that I'm talking about the GNU version of "screen",
> > not the non-GNU version, which I haven't used in a while but
> > which I seem to remember as having fewer features and little if
> > any documentation.)
> 
> There're two of them? And they didn't think to give them distinct
> names? Typical.

You hadn't noticed that a lot of the traditional-UNIX tools have
multiple implementations, and the GNU implementations are apt to
have more features?

> > > that aren't limited to one
> > > screenful at a time
> >
> > The cut-and-paste provided by "screen" is not limited to one
> > screenful at a time.
> 
> If the underlying app is screen-oriented then it must be. 

And if not, not.  "screen" maintains an output buffer that can be
scrolled through, and cutting and pasting from *that* isn't limited
to a screenful.

> There'd be
> no way for "screen" to know about scrolling or selections in that app,
> and selections in itself will be limited to the current contents of
> the app's display, and scrolling in itself won't work with screen-
> oriented underlying apps.
> 
> > > and aren't likely to capture crud like
> > > foo^]]E^]]D^Hquux ...
> >
> > I have no idea what that "crud like ...." phrase is meant to convey;
> > it doesn't resemble anything I've observed happening with "screen".
> 
> Well, the only other way to make "screen"'s clipboard work, besides to
> copy parts of the app's display output, 

I'm inclined to think, based on observation, that this is what it's
doing.

> is to copy either parts of the
> app's raw output or its input. But the latter two will be full of
> escape and control characters, at least in the case where the app is
> screen-oriented, which will then tend to print like the garbage above.

Just out of curiosity, how much experience do you have with this
tool you're critiquing?

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-17 10:41 +0000
  Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-17 13:14 +0100
    Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-17 15:14 +0100
    Re: generics puzzle markspace <-@.> - 2011-10-17 07:33 -0700
      Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-17 16:26 +0100
        Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:48 +0000
      Re: generics puzzle Andreas Leitgeb <avl@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> - 2011-10-17 15:36 +0000
    Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-17 08:58 -0700
      Re: generics puzzle Steven Simpson <ss@domain.invalid> - 2011-10-18 10:45 +0100
        Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-18 09:42 -0700
          Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:25 +0000
            Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-19 10:04 -0700
              Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 14:14 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2011-10-20 11:11 -0700
  Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-17 09:12 -0700
    Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 14:49 +0000
      Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:27 +0200
        Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 17:45 +0000
          Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-18 22:15 +0200
          Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-18 18:59 -0700
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:28 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:21 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:27 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-10-21 20:34 +0200
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-22 18:50 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-22 21:02 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:04 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:25 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-26 21:56 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-27 08:59 +0000
                eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 17:05 +0000
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-29 19:49 -0700
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:17 +0000
                Re: eclipse shortcuts again (was Re: generics puzzle) Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 05:39 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 01:30 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 08:56 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 02:46 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 07:05 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-25 23:29 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 11:14 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Four of Seventeen <fseventeen@gmail.com> - 2011-10-31 05:34 -0700
          Re: generics puzzle markspace <-@.> - 2011-10-18 21:21 -0700
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:29 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-20 17:22 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:28 +0000
              Re: generics puzzle Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-21 06:22 -0300
                Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:29 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 01:20 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2011-10-23 09:51 +0000
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-23 03:28 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-23 15:59 +0100
                Re: generics puzzle Eight of Seventeen <eights17@gmail.com> - 2011-10-24 02:46 -0700
                Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-23 15:55 +0100
            Re: generics puzzle Tom Anderson <twic@urchin.earth.li> - 2011-10-20 21:00 +0100
          Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-19 13:26 +0000
          Re: generics puzzle Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-10-21 05:57 -0300
            Re: generics puzzle blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-10-21 16:28 +0000

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