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Groups > comp.lang.java.programmer > #23112

Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code

Date 2013-03-25 09:19 +0000
From lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk">
Organization Trollbusters 3
Newsgroups comp.lang.java.programmer
Subject Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code
References (11 earlier) <kiia2i$qsf$1@dont-email.me> <co2dnYr3BfgZJ9HMnZ2dnUVZ8gKdnZ2d@bt.com> <kiltmg$ku2$1@dont-email.me> <CqudnXDCRoNRUtPMnZ2dnUVZ7tKdnZ2d@bt.com> <Y1J3t.57778$8d.17743@newsfe14.iad>
Message-ID <76Gdne3ZbNY4i83MnZ2dnUVZ8i-dnZ2d@bt.com> (permalink)

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On 24/03/13 20:07, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 03/24/2013 07:04 AM, lipska the kat wrote:
>> On 24/03/13 04:01, Joshua Cranmer 🐧 wrote:
> [ SNIP ]

[snip]

>> Than you for a very enjoyable discussion
>>
>> lipska
>>
> Interesting discussion, a couple of observations.
>
> First, to me if something "looks like" OO then it really is, because I
> can't think of any sensible use of the word "resemble" in this context
> other than taking it to mean: "I examined the code and found it to be OO
> code". How does something look like OO and not be OO? Maybe if you
> failed to examine thoroughly, is all.
>
> As for any black and white definition of what is, and what isn't, OO, it
> doesn't exist. Read the section on fundamental features & concepts in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_programming. For example,
> although this would surprise a lot of OO programmers, the class concept
> is not even close to being a core requirement for OO, and as you can see
> from that article the number of generally agreed fundamental features is
> small.
>
> So I wouldn't use the term "incomplete" at all unless one or more of
> those 3 (or maybe 4) fundamental features is missing.

Well, fortunately, just at the moment, George Orwell's thought police 
don't exist in this part of the world and we are in the happy positions 
of being able to think what we want ;-)

I agree with you that there doesn't seem to be any widely agreed on 
definition of Object Oriented. This doesn't stop me having my own view 
of the paradigm, in fact it encourages it, it also encourages you and 
others to have your own view which can obviously be different to mine.

IMHO this is an example of why Software Engineering is not yet a 
classical 'engineering' discipline. I would be delighted to sit any 
examination and undertake any assignment to achieve a professional 
qualification in software engineering but I think that is some years 
away yet. A first in Computer Science is unfortunately not enough :-)

My example in C was designed to show why I believe the original 
assertion that...

"Object oriented means to collect behaviors into types with attributes, 
and operate on objects of those types"

... is incomplete at best. It was not intended as a criticism of C's 
'Object Orientedness' as some responders have incorrectly assumed but as 
a validation of my criticism, something which is de-rigueur in any 
academic style discussion apparently.

If I was forced to come up with a definition of OO it would be something 
along the lines of

----------
The encapsulation of human concepts into semi autonomous components that 
publish cohesive black box interfaces to the outside world and perform 
useful work by passing messages amongst themselves.
----------

I suppose I'd better define some words to defend against the inevitable 
nit-picking.

Encapsulation means to wrap up state and operations on that state using 
aspects of the information hiding paradigm to protect the internal state 
of a component from unintended outside interference.

Cohesive means that the operations exposed by a component on it's state
'belong together'

Black Box means that internal state and the implementation of actions on 
that state are invisible to the outside world.

Interface means any technique used to present an interface to the 
outside world including but not limited to classes, interfaces, server 
endpoints, proxy servers, satellites, alien technologies and the supreme 
being who or whatever that or it may be.

messages means ... well you get the picture.

You are of course at liberty to disagree but that doesn't make you right 
:-))

lipska

-- 
Lipska the Kat©: Troll hunter, sandbox destroyer
and farscape dreamer of Aeryn Sun

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Thread

Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Turtle Wizard <elvishNOSPAM.healer@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 22:26 +0100
  Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-03-19 18:49 -0700
    Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Fredrik Jonson <fredrik@jonson.org> - 2013-03-20 07:18 +0000
      Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-20 20:28 +1100
        Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Fredrik Jonson <fredrik@jonson.org> - 2013-03-20 13:34 +0000
          Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-03-20 12:07 -0700
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-20 20:26 -0400
              Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2013-03-21 08:11 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 20:58 +1100
              Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 12:29 -0700
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-21 20:34 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-21 17:56 -0400
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 15:24 -0700
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-22 09:18 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-03-22 07:15 -0300
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-22 13:54 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-03-22 10:25 -0700
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-22 18:14 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-03-22 13:22 -0700
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-22 20:26 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Daniel Pitts <newsgroup.nospam@virtualinfinity.net> - 2013-03-22 13:32 -0700
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-22 21:39 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-23 08:50 +1100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2013-03-22 23:26 +0100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-23 09:39 +1100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-22 20:15 -0400
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-22 20:12 -0400
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-22 20:08 -0400
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2013-03-23 10:59 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-03-23 15:33 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-03-22 10:19 -0500
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-22 16:57 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-03-22 14:07 -0500
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-22 20:09 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-22 20:31 -0400
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-23 08:54 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-03-23 23:01 -0500
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-24 10:04 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-03-24 17:07 -0300
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-25 09:19 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-25 09:26 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-22 20:49 -0400
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2013-03-23 11:12 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-23 15:24 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-03-23 16:21 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-23 17:10 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Martin Gregorie <martin@address-in-sig.invalid> - 2013-03-23 18:27 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-23 18:51 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom2@eastlink.ca> - 2013-03-23 22:00 -0300
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-22 20:19 -0400
          Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 14:12 +1100
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-21 09:06 +0000
              Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 20:57 +1100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-21 10:42 +0000
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 22:11 +1100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-21 11:53 +0000
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-21 17:58 -0400
        Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-20 13:51 +0000
          Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joshua Cranmer 🐧 <Pidgeot18@verizon.invalid> - 2013-03-20 09:28 -0500
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-20 15:03 +0000
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-20 20:32 -0400
          Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-03-20 17:52 +0100
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-20 17:43 +0000
              Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-21 10:01 +1100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code lipska the kat <"nospam at neversurrender dot co dot uk"> - 2013-03-21 08:35 +0000
              Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-20 20:35 -0400
        Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-20 20:18 -0400
        Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Jim Janney <jjanney@shell.xmission.com> - 2013-03-22 18:00 -0600
          Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code "Qu0ll" <Qu0llSixFour@gmail.com> - 2013-03-23 11:08 +1100
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-22 20:26 -0400
      Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-03-20 12:41 +0100
        Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code paul.cager@gmail.com - 2013-03-20 05:59 -0700
          Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-03-20 17:49 +0100
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2013-03-20 20:33 +0100
              Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-03-20 23:15 +0100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Lars Enderin <lars.enderin@telia.com> - 2013-03-21 00:11 +0100
                Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-03-21 00:27 +0100
        Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-20 20:39 -0400
          Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2013-03-21 10:01 -0700
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Arne VajhĂžj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2013-03-21 17:39 -0400
            Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code Joerg Meier <joergmmeier@arcor.de> - 2013-03-22 01:21 +0100
    Re: Final Fantasy 2 based game source code bubble <bubble@soft29.vub.ac.be> - 2013-03-24 14:16 +0000

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