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Re: Java EE on tomcat?

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On 9/22/2011 5:08 AM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
> On 11-09-21 11:41 PM, EricF wrote:
>> In article<4e7a8166$0$281$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arne_Vajh=F8j?=<arne@vajhoej.dk>  wrote:
>>> On 9/21/2011 12:38 AM, EricF wrote:
>>>> In article<4e77f29e$0$311$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>,
> [ SNIP ]
>
>>>
>>>> I do think Spring is nice but it doesn't try to provide the standards (JEE).
>>>> When it first came out, it was a lot easier to use than much of the JEE
>>> stack.
>>>> These days JEE has been simplified.
>>>
>>> But to me it is difficult to see why go with a non-standard
>>> solution exists when a standard solution exists that does the
>>> same.
>>>
>>>
>> Arne, I certainly agree with your comment in general. Personally I like Java
>> and many parts of JEE, but I'm not sure how "standard" Oracle solutions are.
>
> Pretty standard now. :-) They own Glassfish, for example.
>
> Seriously, Oracle's been as standard as anyone else in the J2EE/Java EE
> world, in my experience, for quite some time.
>
>> There are several JEE servers so there are a few options - Websphere,
>> Weblogic, JBoss, Glassfish, ... I must be missing 1 or 2. But have you ever
>> ported an EJB from 1 to the other? I have. Standard solutions just aren't that
>> standard anymore.
>
> But with Java EE the progression has absolutely been from less
> standardization to more standardization. This has gone hand in hand with
> the rationalization/simplification of specifications.
>
> It's not been that long since EJBs meant ejb-jar.xml, and the server's
> own ejb-jar.xml companion configuration file, and doing explicit JNDI
> lookup. All of that - especially the JNDI - is what was exposing
> non-standardization. Not only are less things non-standard now, but the
> beauty of API specifications movement in the Java EE space has been that
> a lot of the non-standard bits have been hidden. Dependency injection
> has a lot to do with that.
>
>> The LAMP stack, JEE, Spring are all different ways to do similar things.
>> Options are nice.
>
> LAMP absolutely. Or write an HTTP server using node.js. Or operate in
> the ASP.NET MVC ecosystem. Options are essential.
>
> But Spring was only an option - a credible, useful option - for a brief
> window back when, during some period of J2EE 1.2-1.4. Recall that Spring
> emerged during J2EE 1.3, and really only matured during J2EE 1.4. *All*
> Spring 2.x releases happened after Java EE 5 was released. Basically
> Java EE 5 closed the lid on Spring, and Java EE 6 has hammered in the nails.
>
> My argument now is, if you're using Spring, most of the time there is a
> standard non-Spring way to do the same thing.

If Spring is only used for its original purpose DI and that feature
is used moderatly then it is not so bad.

But using everything Spring and use it all over a project usually
turns pretty ugly.

Arne

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Re: Java EE on tomcat? Torsten Kirschner <torsten.kirschner@gmail.com> - 2011-09-19 00:30 +0200
  Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-18 20:44 -0300
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? Torsten Kirschner <torsten.kirschner@gmail.com> - 2011-09-20 00:20 +0200
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-20 05:50 -0300
        Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 08:45 -0700
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:19 -0700
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:31 -0700
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-21 17:37 -0300
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 11:29 -0700
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-21 14:26 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 10:27 -0700
                Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 13:30 -0700
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:40 -0400
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:35 -0400
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? nroberts <roberts.noah@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 10:23 -0700
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 13:38 -0700
              Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-22 21:15 -0400
  Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-19 21:55 -0400
    Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-21 04:38 +0000
      Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-21 20:29 -0400
        Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-22 02:41 +0000
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arved Sandstrom <asandstrom3minus1@eastlink.ca> - 2011-09-22 06:08 -0300
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-22 21:18 -0400
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Lew <lewbloch@gmail.com> - 2011-09-22 08:39 -0700
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? Robert Klemme <shortcutter@googlemail.com> - 2011-09-22 22:58 +0200
          Re: Java EE on tomcat? Arne Vajhøj <arne@vajhoej.dk> - 2011-09-22 18:47 -0400
            Re: Java EE on tomcat? eric@invalid.com (EricF) - 2011-09-24 04:45 +0000

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