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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #25441
| From | Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: LOCALS| and {: |
| Date | 2013-08-28 03:52 +0200 |
| Organization | 1&1 Internet AG |
| Message-ID | <kvjl48$6ga$1@online.de> (permalink) |
| References | (16 earlier) <kfSdnen8E8Sp84fPnZ2dnUVZ_qKdnZ2d@supernews.com> <kvdsr7$pum$1@online.de> <poadnb5zNv0JkobPnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@supernews.com> <kvg7b5$clb$1@online.de> <D42dnePLuIvbRIHPnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@supernews.com> |
Andrew Haley wrote: > Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> wrote: >> Oh, please, forget about this concept of long tool chains. The >> languages that have been recently made are much more interactive, >> and thus Forth-like in nature. Just embed the necessary information >> about how to call a function into the shared library in a way that >> is easy to parse. > > So why bother with C? You're fighting C's essential nature. It seems > that C is everything you don't want, so rather than use something else > that does what you want, you want to change C. The problem I have with this approach is that C is everywhere, and I absolutely have to interface with C (and, on Android, even Java), because all system libraries are written in C (except on Android, where it is a mix of C, C++, and Java; which is actually easier than just C after you got over the initial hurdle that you now need another interface to another language, because Java is so much better to interface with). If you want to write system libraries, please use a language which makes sense for writing system libraries. Apparently, C isn't making sense (if you don't see C as the appropriate language to write applications, which is now common sense), so it needs changing. Best in a way that doesn't break code. You have to remember: If you write a system library, you don't write for yourself. It's "nine times the effort", as Fred Brooks argues. Some of that effort needs to go into the compiler and the binary format, and Java is pretty well designed in this aspect. If you think that the mission of C is just being another language for lone wolf programming, then you are missing the point of C. That's what C was designed for: systems and system libraries (though with a 1970 mindest). The language to write the fastest benchmarks in is called Fortran, and the language for lone wolf programming is called Forth. -- Bernd Paysan "If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself" http://bernd-paysan.de/
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LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-16 11:59 +0100
Re: LOCALS| and {: "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 12:31 +0100
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 13:31 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 21:50 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-17 08:51 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-18 20:10 +0100
Re: LOCALS| and {: Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-08-18 23:32 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-18 15:47 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-19 15:10 +0100
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-19 09:46 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-22 20:15 +0100
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-19 07:17 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-19 14:18 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-19 10:25 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-19 15:39 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-19 11:26 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-20 11:25 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-20 10:05 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-21 14:38 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-21 11:48 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-21 16:50 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-21 12:18 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-22 12:33 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-22 15:26 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-22 12:25 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-23 02:24 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 03:12 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-24 01:22 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 02:56 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-23 01:49 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 03:52 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-23 08:10 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 13:00 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-23 13:46 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 03:01 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-24 03:24 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 12:51 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-25 11:44 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-08-28 22:27 -0400
Re: LOCALS| and {: David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-08-28 22:27 -0400
Re: LOCALS| and {: "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-30 02:42 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-22 12:24 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-23 11:50 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 08:13 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-23 13:55 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 13:05 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-24 10:36 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 13:05 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-24 22:44 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-25 04:29 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-25 20:15 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-25 15:51 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-25 23:27 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-26 03:19 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-26 20:38 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-27 11:52 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-28 03:52 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-28 11:55 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-26 11:36 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-08-28 22:27 -0400
Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-21 10:36 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-21 17:22 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-21 12:34 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: mhx@iae.nl - 2013-08-21 23:05 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-22 03:15 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-22 14:49 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-23 02:07 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-26 20:51 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-27 15:55 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: mhx@iae.nl - 2013-08-27 10:22 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-27 17:33 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-27 23:02 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: mhx@iae.nl - 2013-08-27 22:02 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-27 11:08 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-27 21:16 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-30 02:56 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-20 20:10 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-20 01:49 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-20 07:14 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-21 10:28 +0100
Re: LOCALS| and {: "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-18 10:04 -1000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-19 20:08 +0100
Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-20 01:54 +0000
Re: LOCALS| and {: Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-20 02:19 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-20 04:37 -0500
Re: LOCALS| and {: Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-08-17 13:58 +0200
Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-17 18:49 -0700
Re: LOCALS| and {: "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-08-23 17:37 +1000
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