Re: LOCALS| and {:

Date	2013-08-22 20:15 +0100
Subject	Re: LOCALS\| and {:
From	Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Message-ID	<CE3C21FA.3A44%igvb@btopenworld.com> (permalink)
References	<CE33C486.3991%igvb@btopenworld.com> <520f3862.195907194@news.demon.co.uk> <CE36DA9A.39D8%igvb@btopenworld.com> <2013Aug19.114627@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at>

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Anton Ertl  wrote on 19/08/2013 10:46:

> 
> If it's a minor matter for you, great, just use {: and you get the
> uninitialised locals thrown in.  For me the order is a major matter,
> that's why I have never used LOCALS|.
> 
No, because LOCALS| was incorporated in the ANS Standard and I adopted it.
> 
> So, if you think it is important, make a proposal for making this
> feature standard.  I am not really keen on implementing this for
> LOCALS|, which nobody should use anyway, so you may want to propose it
> only for "{:".  Or maybe LOCALS| across lines is a good occasion for
> removing LOCALS| from Gforth.
> 
Not at all, since LOCALS| will do just was well.

When the ANS Standard was first published, I found it to be the first usable
standard after polyForth.  I therefore adopted it, along with Chris
Stephens' 'See Flow' for diagnostics, seen as an absolute 'must'.  There
were some major omissions, particularly in multitasking, especially TERMINAL
and BACKGROUND tasks, and time-slicing.

One of the important features of ANS was the use of LOCALS|; bear in mind
that {: was not in the ANS Standard and LOCALS| were therefore seen as 'the
only game in town'.  This greatly simplified working with the stack and made
it similar to other common languages, as well as simplifying the source
code.  I therefore adopted it in my code: to change this now would break too
much code for me.

My suggestions are very simple: to bring the two schemes into line.

1) Allow for more that one line in both LOCALS| and {: .  It is important to
allow for compound words for the locals names, where necessary, and which I
find essential. 

2) Allow for LOCALS| to use 'val's as well as in {: .  This is very easy to
do by using a || separator and makes the code nearly identical in the two
cases (in my version).  Limiting the number to eight LOCALS| 'arg' values is
fine, as least in the Mac Classic incarnation.

I have to disagree profoundly with that the statement, 'which nobody should
use [LOCALS|] anyway'; this surely is just a matter of style.  LOCALS|
simply works from the top of the stack down, while {: starts form an
somewhat arbitrary point upwards.  I prefer to work backwards from the top
of the stack, which I find easier to do.  I just happen to have started with
the ANS version, which I continue to use.

Ian

Thread

LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-16 11:59 +0100
  Re: LOCALS| and {: "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-16 12:31 +0100
  Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-16 13:31 +0000
  Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-16 21:50 +0200
  Re: LOCALS| and {: stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-17 08:51 +0000
    Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-18 20:10 +0100
      Re: LOCALS| and {: Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-08-18 23:32 +0200
      Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-18 15:47 -0700
        Re: LOCALS| and {: "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-08-19 15:10 +0100
      Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-19 09:46 +0000
        Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-22 20:15 +0100
      Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-19 07:17 -0500
        Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-19 14:18 +0000
          Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-19 10:25 -0500
            Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-19 15:39 +0000
              Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-19 11:26 -0500
            Re: LOCALS| and {: stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-20 11:25 +0000
              Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-20 10:05 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-21 14:38 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-21 11:48 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-21 16:50 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-21 12:18 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-22 12:33 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-22 15:26 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-22 12:25 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-23 02:24 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 03:12 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-24 01:22 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 02:56 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-23 01:49 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 03:52 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-23 08:10 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 13:00 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-23 13:46 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 03:01 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-24 03:24 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 12:51 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-25 11:44 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-08-28 22:27 -0400
                Re: LOCALS| and {: David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-08-28 22:27 -0400
                Re: LOCALS| and {: "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-30 02:42 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-22 12:24 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-23 11:50 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 08:13 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-23 13:55 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-23 13:05 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-24 10:36 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-24 13:05 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-24 22:44 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-25 04:29 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-25 20:15 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-25 15:51 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-25 23:27 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-26 03:19 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-26 20:38 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-27 11:52 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-28 03:52 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-28 11:55 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-26 11:36 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: David Thompson <dave.thompson2@verizon.net> - 2013-08-28 22:27 -0400
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-21 10:36 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-08-21 17:22 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-21 12:34 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: mhx@iae.nl - 2013-08-21 23:05 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-22 03:15 -0500
                Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-22 14:49 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-23 02:07 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-26 20:51 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-08-27 15:55 +0200
                Re: LOCALS| and {: mhx@iae.nl - 2013-08-27 10:22 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-27 17:33 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-27 23:02 +0000
                Re: LOCALS| and {: mhx@iae.nl - 2013-08-27 22:02 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-08-27 11:08 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-27 21:16 -0700
                Re: LOCALS| and {: "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-08-30 02:56 +0000
              Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-20 20:10 +0000
          Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-20 01:49 +0000
            Re: LOCALS| and {: anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-08-20 07:14 +0000
        Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-21 10:28 +0100
    Re: LOCALS| and {: "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-08-18 10:04 -1000
      Re: LOCALS| and {: Ian van Breda <igvb@btopenworld.com> - 2013-08-19 20:08 +0100
        Re: LOCALS| and {: albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-08-20 01:54 +0000
    Re: LOCALS| and {: Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-08-20 02:19 -0700
      Re: LOCALS| and {: Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-08-20 04:37 -0500
  Re: LOCALS| and {: Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-08-17 13:58 +0200
  Re: LOCALS| and {: hughaguilar96@yahoo.com - 2013-08-17 18:49 -0700
  Re: LOCALS| and {: "Ed" <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-08-23 17:37 +1000

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