Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry

From	"Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry
Date	2013-05-09 20:16 -0400
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<kmhe1u$t2o$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
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"Steve" <nospam275@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:55140771-e5cd-44c2-8f43-3200d876ab75@fz1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...

> http://www.mpeforth.com/arena.htm.
> Down the end of the page.
>

I seem to recall something about it years ago...

However, I mostly remember Rob Chapman's Timbre when the topic of
C to Forth and Forth to C comes up.  Although, I always have to
look up which direction the conversion takes place ...

My Forth interpreter has a small C backend today, but had a large
one when starting out.  So, I've considered recycling the C code
to produce a Forth to C converter.  I also have another simple,
rough Forth to C converter project which not based on a compiler,
interpreter, or parser.  One of these might develop over time into
something useful.

> > > When you say modern C compiler is too difficult to modify,
> > > are you talking about the project code management side, or
> > > c++?
> > >
> >
> > I'm just saying it'll be alot of work to modify a major C (or
> > C++) compiler to emit Forth.  It's an undertaking for a
> > corporation or team of people, but not a person.  It'll also
> > be alot of work to code a browser from scratch in Forth.
> > However, code from scratch will be clean and understandable
> > by humans.
>
> Why wouldn't you program at least the underlying hardware/code
> production portion from scratch in Forth?
>

... of the C compiler or the browser?

Are you saying to code and maintain a separate backend in Forth
for one of them?  If so, with a C compiler modified for Forth, I
don't see a point to that...  The code is all C.  That might be a
solution to handle bootstrapping a Forth port/conversion of the
browser.  That depends on how good the C to Forth conversion is,
whether interpreted or compiled Forth, etc.

> > Programmatically
> > translated code won't be.  It'll work but be a total mess.
>
> Why would you want to maintain outputted code in Forth instead
> of C?

You wouldn't.  That was the point about coding it from scratch in
Forth...

Well, I was assuming that after the project was converted from C
to Forth that Forth programmers would take over maintaining Forth.
However, they could just convert C to Forth with every C update...
What's the point of that though?

> The only real use of such a product is to get
> in a portion or system of completed code to a target that does
> not normally have support for it, to use it instead of rewriting
> it from scratch.

Forth and C are the most ubiquitous languages.  Support for both
is likely.  I.e., the real need for conversion is only if Forth
programmers need existing C code in Forth, and don't want to start
from scratch with Forth code.


Rod Pemberton

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offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-03 11:17 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-03 16:54 -0400
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-03 14:30 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:03 -0400
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-03 23:24 -0700
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:24 -0400
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "visualforth@rocketmail.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 15:01 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 15:50 -0700
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 13:45 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry babruehl@gmail.com - 2013-05-04 16:55 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 15:08 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 21:52 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:51 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 18:50 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 20:13 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-05 09:38 +0000
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 17:00 -0400
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "visualforth@rocketmail.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:50 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-05 13:02 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-05-05 23:14 +0200
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 13:44 -1000
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 19:35 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 23:17 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 23:39 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-06 01:21 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 00:08 -0700
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 21:58 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 06:56 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:42 -0400
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 17:11 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:41 -0400
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 15:42 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 20:10 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-07 18:53 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 20:59 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 20:24 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:16 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 02:14 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-07 20:46 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:12 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 06:23 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 11:44 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 13:27 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:05 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 18:27 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-15 05:24 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 10:03 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 07:30 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 10:39 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 08:15 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 22:56 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 21:37 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-16 14:01 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-16 11:47 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 23:19 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-16 17:38 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-17 13:35 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-17 08:14 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 19:56 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 13:34 -0400
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 23:50 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 03:48 -0500
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-04 19:31 +0200
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 11:05 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 13:46 -0500
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:31 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 15:58 -0500
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 17:04 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 17:23 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 10:28 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-05 01:41 +0200
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-05 04:16 -0500
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-05 12:56 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 05:19 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 04:01 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 09:48 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 11:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 17:21 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 22:58 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 21:04 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-08 03:02 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-10 05:03 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 11:21 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-11 15:53 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:07 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 08:29 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 11:39 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-11 15:56 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:14 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-12 12:29 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-12 08:33 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-15 05:23 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 07:43 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-15 14:11 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 11:41 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 09:35 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 13:50 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-19 19:34 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-19 23:41 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry dirk.bruehl@usa.net - 2013-05-17 08:53 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 11:06 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 18:56 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 03:56 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-06 00:31 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 00:54 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 22:06 -1000
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-05 02:43 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 19:06 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 21:55 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 07:41 -0400
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-05 21:02 -0700

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