Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry

From	Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry
Date	2013-05-05 01:41 +0200
Organization	1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID	<km46bl$jtv$1@online.de> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <km3gl2$4v9$1@online.de> <Uf2dnZMmbcIeyhjMnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@supernews.com> <km3r10$iui$1@dont-email.me> <67WdnVAyMef-6xjMnZ2dnUVZ_rCdnZ2d@supernews.com> <km3suu$ai$1@dont-email.me>

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rickman wrote:
>> Maybe it depends on the team.  I find that a very difficult-to-
>> believe story because they would have had his CV.
> 
> CV doesn't give an age.

Well, if your CV contains something like "wrote the first Unix kernel in 
1970", it is a strong hint...  BTW: German CVs even contain a picture, 
married/single and other things you wouldn't include in an US CV.

> I guess you could estimate, but he may not have
> included all of his background.  He has a pretty good CV too.  Didn't
> matter.  He is the sort that can always find a good job because of his
> obvious skills and talent.
> 
> What part do you not believe?

I suppose Andrew was together with a greybeard-only department ;-).  People 
gathering around Ken Thompson or so.

>>> There is a difference between celebrating your long time employees
>>> and "valuing experience".
>>
>> Few have been at Google for very long, though.  The greybeards of whom
>> I speak hadn't been there all that long.
> 
> How did they get in?  How do you explain all the reports of age
> discrimination?  This isn't the first time I have heard of this.

I think Andrew had a meeting with the Go team.  That's an exception.  The Go 
team is very atypical for Google.  Go is the language where you replace 20 
overloaded servers with Java+Php+Python+other modern crap with 2 servers, 
one of them lightly loaded, and the other is the hot spare.  I suppose they 
didn't go through the normal interview procedure.

IMHO the "you need to be under 30 to be innovative" is a fallacy.  You need 
to have done something impressive under 30 to qualify, but most of the 
people who had done something impressive at that age did more impressive 
things later.

Many young people are mediocre, just like many old people are mediocre.  
Experience isn't counted in years, either.  If you have done many impressive 
things, you are experienced.  It's not related to the length of the facial 
hair.

Some companies work down their employees by driving them into burnout.  
These companies need fresh blood, and they usually assume that the wear of 
their employees is "due to age", not due to the overload.  It only takes a 
few years to wear down an engineer to a Wally in such an environment, and as 
a result, the bosses of such companies think that people are only productive 
below 30 - because they don't have anyone productive above 30.  Given how 
many FOSS projects died when Google hired the developers (of which you never 
hear again, even though they would have one day per week to work on their 
project), I suspect that Google is such a company.  Many American companies 
are.  They are men-eaters.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-03 11:17 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-03 16:54 -0400
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-03 14:30 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:03 -0400
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-03 23:24 -0700
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:24 -0400
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "visualforth@rocketmail.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 15:01 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 15:50 -0700
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 13:45 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry babruehl@gmail.com - 2013-05-04 16:55 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 15:08 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 21:52 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:51 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 18:50 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 20:13 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-05 09:38 +0000
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 17:00 -0400
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "visualforth@rocketmail.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:50 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-05 13:02 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-05-05 23:14 +0200
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 13:44 -1000
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 19:35 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 23:17 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 23:39 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-06 01:21 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 00:08 -0700
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 21:58 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 06:56 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:42 -0400
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 17:11 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:41 -0400
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 15:42 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 20:10 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-07 18:53 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 20:59 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 20:24 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:16 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 02:14 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-07 20:46 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:12 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 06:23 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 11:44 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 13:27 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:05 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 18:27 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-15 05:24 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 10:03 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 07:30 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 10:39 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 08:15 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 22:56 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 21:37 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-16 14:01 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-16 11:47 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 23:19 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-16 17:38 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-17 13:35 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-17 08:14 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 19:56 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 13:34 -0400
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 23:50 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 03:48 -0500
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-04 19:31 +0200
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 11:05 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 13:46 -0500
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:31 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 15:58 -0500
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 17:04 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 17:23 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 10:28 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-05 01:41 +0200
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-05 04:16 -0500
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-05 12:56 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 05:19 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 04:01 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 09:48 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 11:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 17:21 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 22:58 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 21:04 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-08 03:02 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-10 05:03 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 11:21 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-11 15:53 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:07 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 08:29 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 11:39 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-11 15:56 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:14 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-12 12:29 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-12 08:33 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-15 05:23 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 07:43 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-15 14:11 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 11:41 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 09:35 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 13:50 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry dirk.bruehl@usa.net - 2013-05-17 08:53 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 11:06 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 18:56 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 03:56 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-06 00:31 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 00:54 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 22:06 -1000
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-05 02:43 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 19:06 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 21:55 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 07:41 -0400
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-05 21:02 -0700

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