Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry

Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Date	2013-05-03 14:30 -0700
References	<acaaee13-82e0-4ef7-9f35-8e9d343dfb8a@googlegroups.com> <km17vu$bdl$1@speranza.aioe.org>
Message-ID	<127bfecf-b7c6-4863-84c7-ff42edc1d9be@googlegroups.com> (permalink)
Subject	Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry
From	Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com>

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On Friday, May 3, 2013 1:54:30 PM UTC-7, Rod Pemberton wrote:
> "Jason Damisch" <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> > As a Forth programmer, I don't know how you feel about the 
> > computer industry in general, but for myself, I feel that there 
> > is much wrong with it.
>  
> 
> If one does not qualify with the stated constraint of "as a Forth 
> programmer," should one respond to this or was that a 
> pre-emptively exclusionary statement? ... 

You can respond to it or not as you see fit.  It is an exclusionary statement so far as I am not a C programmer.

> > I won't go into all of the hundreds of complaints that I have
> > about it.

> Okay, obviously this flame bait...  But, I'll bite anyway.

No, it is not flame bait. It is an expression of genuine anger, frustration and discontent.  If you can't see it as being anything more than flame bait then perhaps it reflects on the values of mainstream computer culture.

> Why did you bother to post mentioning your "hundreds of
> complaints," about the "the computer industry in general," "as a
> Forth programmer," if you weren't willing to discuss them with us?

Because if I did, it would flood this outpost with hundreds of off-topic threads.  I thought that one was enough.  If I do this, then I will create a blog of my own for this topic.

> > As a Forth programmer, personally, I feel disconnected from the 
> > mainstream of computer programming culture and I.T. culture.
> ... 
> > As such I feel that I can step back from it and take a critical 
> > view of it, while also having some knowledge about the
> > technical aspects of it at the same time.
> ...
> > This I feel gives me a unique perspective.

> How so?

Because I am not emotionally invested in the way things are.

> You clearly, just stated that you're ignorant of "mainstream ... 
> computer programming culture" while being knowledgeable about
> Forth.  That description seems to fit  _ALL_  the Forth
> programmers here.  

No, probably most of the people in here have an affinity with mainstream computer culture, and happen to also be Forth programmers.  

> The opposite seems to fit  _ALL_  the non-Forth
> programmers not here, i.e., they're skilled in their domains and
> ignorant of Forth.  

I think that would be true of most C programmers, but not all.

> So, wouldn't you need to be knowledgeable
> about _BOTH_ cultures to actually have a "unique perspective"?
> I.e., your perspective, from my perspective, is that you fit into
> the Forth crowd.  Tell me, how is that unique?
> 
> Rod Pemberton

I might fit into the Forth crowd, but I am not economically nor emotionally invested in the current state of affairs.  If I was then I would be happy and not posting this thread.

Jason

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offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-03 11:17 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-03 16:54 -0400
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-03 14:30 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:03 -0400
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-03 23:24 -0700
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:24 -0400
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "visualforth@rocketmail.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 15:01 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 15:50 -0700
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 13:45 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry babruehl@gmail.com - 2013-05-04 16:55 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 15:08 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 21:52 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:51 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 18:50 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 20:13 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-05 09:38 +0000
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 17:00 -0400
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "visualforth@rocketmail.com" <babruehl@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:50 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-05 13:02 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2013-05-05 23:14 +0200
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 13:44 -1000
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 21:07 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 19:35 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 23:17 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 23:39 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-06 01:21 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 00:08 -0700
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 21:58 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 06:56 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:42 -0400
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 17:11 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-05 18:41 -0400
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 15:42 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 20:10 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-07 18:53 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 20:59 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 20:24 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:16 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 02:14 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-07 20:46 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:12 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 06:23 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 11:44 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 13:27 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:05 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-11 18:27 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-15 05:24 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 10:03 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 07:30 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 10:39 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 08:15 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-15 22:56 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 21:37 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2013-05-16 14:01 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-16 11:47 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 23:19 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-16 17:38 -1000
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 19:56 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 13:34 -0400
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 23:50 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 03:48 -0500
    Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-04 19:31 +0200
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-04 11:05 -0700
      Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 13:46 -0500
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 16:31 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 15:58 -0500
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 17:04 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-04 17:23 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 10:28 -0400
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-05-05 01:41 +0200
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-05 04:16 -0500
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-05 12:56 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 05:19 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 04:01 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 09:48 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 11:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-06 17:21 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 22:58 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 21:04 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-08 03:02 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-10 05:03 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 11:21 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-11 15:53 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:07 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 08:29 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-09 20:08 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 11:39 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-11 15:56 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-11 21:14 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-12 12:29 +0000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-12 08:33 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Rod Pemberton" <do_not_have@notemailnotq.cpm> - 2013-05-15 05:23 -0400
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 07:43 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-15 14:11 -0500
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-15 11:41 -1000
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 09:35 -0700
                Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 13:50 -0400
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 11:06 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 18:56 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry AKE <assadebrahim2000@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 03:56 -0700
            Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry visualforth@rocketmail.com - 2013-05-06 00:31 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 00:54 -0700
              Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 22:06 -1000
        Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-05 02:43 -0700
          Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-05 19:06 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-04 21:55 -0700
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 07:41 -0400
  Re: offtopic - Critical of the Computer Industry Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-05 21:02 -0700

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