Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals.

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals.
Date	2013-05-01 17:21 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<km3b2s$ac8$5@dont-email.me> (permalink)
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On 5/1/2013 12:23 PM, Steve wrote:
> On May 1, 3:35 pm, rickman<gnu...@gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 5/1/2013 10:58 AM, Steve wrote:
>
>
>>> rickman wrote:
>>>> On 4/29/2013 5:31 AM, Steve wrote:
>
>>> I think it might be possible they want to sell an andreno like device,
>>> which would be great if they take advantage of one of the expansion
>>> board systems out there.  I would be interested in something like
>>> that.
>>
>> I understand why they don't make hobbyist type boards, they don't want
>> to support onesy twosy stuff.  They only have time for large customers.
>>    That is pretty clear when your company is so small and running in
>> startup mode.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick
>
> But how much money has Mr Moore gotten from the settlement, and what
> contracts have they landed?  Everything is a bit quite, and there is
> likely a logical reason for it.

Yes, things are quiet because they don't have much to say.  Not many 
companies will talk about their customers because the customers prefer 
that.

Don't confuse Chuck Moore and Green Arrays.  GA is not his company.  I'm 
not sure how much he is involved on a day to day basis.  His blog, which 
has not been updated in some time now, seems to indicate he is off doing 
his own thing and not working directly for the company.  I seriously 
doubt he is a major investor either.

> If they have a big order then chips
> will be cheap, and with a few insiders to run support forums, then
> maybe.

Read Chuck's blogs.  He mentioned how many chips have been ordered and 
if you do a little math, as someone did in a thread here a month or two 
ago, both the initial and the current order of chips were really just 
the minimum quantities they can buy, in essence, prototype runs for the 
fab.  If I am wrong, someone please correct me.  So they may be selling 
some chips, but it is hardly "big orders" they are getting.

Do a little more math and at the price they are selling they need to 
have *much* larger production quantities in order to fund even a small 
company.  Right now they appear to be running in sweat equity mode with 
very low or no salaries.

> Some of the interest from seaforth days should be carrying
> over to orders at GA, like the BMW interest.  Now GA might have funds
> to establish their development agenda, and rights, some orders might
> come through.   I personally hope for large address space 18 and 32
> bit designs to run large code fast.  Even 18 bit is great for my
> purposes.

Agree that 18 bits is not a bad size for embedded CPUs.  I think the 
fact that it is 18 bits rather than 20 bits (four full instructions per 
memory word) says something about Chuck's obsession with "minimal".

> I would like to open the discussion up a bit further Rick.   Is there
> any high speed embedded bus serial peripheral interfaces?

Yes, I believe there is something called USB which can get up to 480 
Mbps in version 2.0 and some odd 3 Gbps or more in version 3.0.  The GA 
eval board uses serial port converter chips to connect to a host PC 
which is much more limited in speed.  I think you might be able to 
implement the "full speed" mode at 12 Mbps in a GA144 directly if you 
worked hard enough at it.  But as is typical with GA and even Chuck 
Moore things, the protocol would likely be "dumbed" down and not fully 
featured.  One limitation is memory as I believe USB *requires* buffers 
which are too large for the GA144 chip itself.  It would be hard to 
provide a memory connection at sufficient rates to keep up with "high 
speed" USB at 2 * 60 MBps.

> All this
> bit banging really restricts speed, and the serial interfaces I have
> found are rather slow.  Pity there is no embedded usb go 2 or 3 like
> standard to bring a wealth of easy interface periphials and memory.
> Even just a high speed memory interface you could use for code or
> data.

"High speed" memory interface is a bit of a misnomer.  High speed is 
what, perhaps low 10's of Meg transfers per second?  That's extremely 
slow by today's standards.  They need to give the chip some real I/O and 
a real memory interface.  They did a software Ethernet interface which 
supports 10 Mbps only and likely not a full TCP/IP, although I'm not sure.

Someone once said here that Charles Moore is not so much a chip designer 
(in the sense of useful products) but rather is more of an inventor.  At 
first I disagreed, but once I learned more about the chip I realized 
that is pretty much on target.  Even ignoring the marketing driven 
aspects that most companies would push for in a multi-CPU chip, just 
from a purely technical perspective I think the GA144 lacks a great deal 
and nearly any other company would have given it some hardware based, 
high speed interfaces.  If I was in the decision making process, I would 
be pushing hard for it to have multi-volt I/Os like nearly *all* FPGAs 
have and even most MCU chips.

If you want to do something with MISC, you need to define it clearly and 
I wouldn't tie it to the Green Arrays product line.  They may not even 
be in business in a few years.  As yet, I have no feel at all for what 
you are trying to do.  If you can't explain it succinctly and clearly, I 
think it means you don't properly know yourself.

-- 

Rick

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Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-04-29 02:31 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-30 11:47 -0400
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-04-30 12:05 -0400
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 07:58 -0700
      Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 11:35 -0400
        Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 09:23 -0700
          Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-01 19:27 +0000
            Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 21:50 -0700
          Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 17:21 -0400
            Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 07:47 -1000
            Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 09:44 -0700
              Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 17:34 -0400
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 22:57 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 11:49 -0400
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 09:36 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 07:50 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 08:19 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 08:19 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-07 19:09 +0000
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 22:36 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 00:14 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 02:40 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 04:19 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-08 09:55 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 10:18 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-08 11:37 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 12:39 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-05-09 00:17 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-08 21:30 -1000
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 01:43 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 12:20 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-08 13:41 +0000
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 10:51 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 09:31 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 10:41 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-15 00:59 -0400
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 22:46 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 23:13 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 09:40 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-16 12:46 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 22:54 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 08:20 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-04-30 09:40 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 08:14 -0700
      Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Brad Eckert <hwfwguy@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 15:37 -0700
        Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 23:10 -0700
          Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 23:52 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 09:54 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Jason Damisch <jasondamisch@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-01 23:04 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Update1 Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-01 10:06 -0700
  Update 2 Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-02 02:36 -0700
    Re: Update 2 Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-02 02:37 -0700
    Re: Update 2 Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-02 11:08 +0000
      Re: Update 2 Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-02 08:07 -0700
      Re: Update 2 Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2013-05-03 15:07 -0400
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-02 08:38 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 13:28 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 01:37 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-05-03 04:03 -0500
      Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-03 08:19 -1000
        Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 13:46 -0700
      Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 14:47 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 02:40 -0700
      Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 14:20 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2013-05-04 10:39 +0000
      Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 10:35 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-04 10:48 +0000
      Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 01:04 -0700
        Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-04 22:24 -1000
          Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-05-05 09:52 +0000
            Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 08:46 -0700
              Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 08:10 -1000
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-05-05 13:12 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 21:17 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 19:39 -1000
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-05 23:51 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-05-05 21:19 -1000
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-06 01:35 -0700
              Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 13:58 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Mark Wills <forthfreak@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 23:55 -0700
                Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 00:26 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 02:11 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 02:19 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 11:21 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 13:28 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-03 15:24 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-07 06:16 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 03:49 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. "WJ" <w_a_x_man@yahoo.com> - 2013-05-08 19:58 +0000
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-08 20:04 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 02:26 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 02:31 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2013-05-10 23:53 -0400
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-14 10:14 -0700
  Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Steve <nospam275@gmail.com> - 2013-05-16 07:23 -0700
    Re: Misc Expansion, OS's, development and project proposals. Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-05-16 12:52 -0700

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